March 792

[Chris Townsend]

OK it looks like we need this.
All of this information is based on contemporary journals and my own observations of Aurora AFX and British F2 races

1: Not known, so guessing at works test car
2: Works for Gabbiani [A/S Thruxton]
3: Galica with Hart 420R, retained 1980 then to Anders Olofsson [A/S 26 Feb 81 p. 7]
4: Not known
5: Henton for Wolfgang Locher, Cocho Lopez. 1980: Max Harvey (h.c) [AS 20.3.80 p. 47] retained 1981
6: San Remo: Ariel Bakst
7: Minardi: Michel Angel Guerra
8: Minardi: Clay Regazzoni/Ferrante Ponti
9: Not known
10: Not known
11: Theodore: Derek Warwick with Hart 420R->Theodore: Keegan [Macau] with BDA
12: Not known
13: Not known
14: Not known
15: ICI: Derek Daly/Keijo Rosberg/Andrea de Cesaris. AS Cheever uses ex Daly 792 in JAF GP 1.11.79 p. 3 suggesting sold to Japan end of season
16: ICI: Stephen South
17: Works: Teo Fabi w/o practice Nurburgring April
18: Works: Marc Surer; f/s OT 9.7.81 p. 38 Sans Thompson, 792 March ex Marc Surer in Atlantic trim with spares Sans Racing Werks, 9940 N.Vancouver Way Portland OR97217; Thompson says run for Katy Rude in a couple of races, then sold to Phil Simon, retained to 1985
19: Salisbury: Juan Traverso; Car with this plate taken by works to 1980 NZ series for de Cesaris and sold to Ken Smith
20: Norman Dickson with Hart 420R; 1980:Paul Gibson; 1981: Bob Leckie [FL]
21: Tiga: Eje Elgh
22: Not known
23: Patrese [Macau] taken to NZ by works for De Cesaris and destroyed in accident.
24: Not known
25: Not known
26: Not known
27: Not known
28: Not known
29: Works: Ricardo Zunino/Rupert Keegan (Vallelunga);Giancarlo Martini (Mugello)/Stefan Johansson (Donington)
30: Not known
31: John Cooper (Eddie Jordan: Donington); 1981: Kim Mather; 1982 John Travis [e mail Dan Rear] 1983: Andy Barton [AC3000 Super Saloon]
32: Daly [Macau] with BDA then Thackwell in NZ adn sold to Ken Smith as was the law in NZ for all race cars.

Unknown 1979
Saturo Nakajima (JAP) appears March
Salisbury: Marcus Hottinger appears April
Andre Chevalley appears April
Works: Spare car, original test car used by Surer in testing
San Remo: Flammini (Vallelunga)/"Gianfranco" (Mugello)/Pedersoli (Enna)/Paletti (Misano)
Walter Raus
Siegfried Stohr (Hockenheim)
Theodore: Spare car, not raced by Warwick before Enna [this might be the Macau car]
Works: Anders Olofsson (Zandvoort)/Gabbiani (Enna)might be 29
Le Mans: Keijo Rosberg (3rd JAF GP)

Chris

[Steve Wilkinson]

792-5 - Max Harvey ran this in 1980 & 1981 with a 2.2 litre Hart 420R engine
792-21 - currently owned by Richard Prosser who last sprinted it with a two litre Vauxhall unit installed (I am trying to fill in the blanks from Tiga to Prosser).
792-31 - this car was entered as a BRD/March complete with 2.0 Hart 420R and driven by Charles Williams in 1990.

Two unknowns:

1988 - Adrian Moores runs a 792 with a 3.9 Buick V8
1989 - Tony Marsh uses a 792 as the basis for his Rovercraft which eventually is written off.

[allenbrown]

There were five or six Japanese 792s by mid-season.

"Team Italya With Tetsu" #1 for Satoru Nakajima (first race 11 March)
"Team Italya With Tetsu" #3 for Noritake Takahara (first race 11 March)
Heroes Racing Corporation #5 for Kazuyoshi Hoshino (first race 11 March)
Nikko Racing (Le Mans Company) #6 for Tiff Needell (Suzuka 20 May) and Stephen South (T-car Suzuka 1 July)
Nikko Racing (Le Mans Company) #7 for Naohiro Fujita (Fuji 3 June and DNA Suzuka 1 July)
Tomy Racing Team (Nova Engineering) #11 for Masahiro Hasemi (from Suzuka 1 July)

The two Le Mans Co cars are entered as #6 and #7 but never appear in the same place so might only be the one car. The team also had a Chevron B48, a Ralt RT1 and a March 782.

There were then six cars present at the 23 Sep race with the addition of a third (or second) Le Mans Co car (#8 for Keiji Matsumoto) and eight at the 4 Nov race but that includes Cheever's ex-Daly car and a Walter Wolf entry for Rosberg.

At least five 792s stay in Japan for 1980.

Allen

[Adam Ferrington]

Chris,
A couple of additions from my contemporary programme notes :-
-30 was the second Theodore car
-9 started out as the second San Remo car, by Donington in August it had passed to Minardi as their second car, with -8 having passed to Trivellato for Stohr.
Otherwise I think my contemporary notes match your post above.
I've e-mailed you the relevant scans.

Of course the March records I have have nothing for 1979.

[David McKinney]

Of the NZ cars - de Cesaris's car survived the series intact (some sort of record?). Both his and Thackwell's were bought by Ken Smith and sold almost immediately to North America

[driftwood]

Japanese 792 cars
i was offered in 1999 a car dismantled ( sitting outside) in poor condition
I have fotos of the car and the plate i will look for them in my head i have chassis 4 but then last night i dreamt i won the lottery

BRD 792#31 car
was this the REAL car ?
we know the Charles williams 792 is the BRD built "replica" 792 now in usa
From memory Minardi had their own car in 1979 based March called the GM75
i do not know if the made own car with march corners or heavily modified a March 792 ( i will look in my Minardi book to see if they mention more- yes they did a book i have 3 copies for sale PM me if u are interested)

You have the 792 Mather car to Barton as AC3000 this is not correct that is 802 underneath the body

[Dan Rear]

Drifty the first Minardi GM75 was 1980, not 79. They did use 792 thru' 1979. You're spot on re 792-31, John Cooper, Kim M in FAt 1981, then Travis. It wasn't under the Barton AC.

[Alan Brown]

Mason in Uphill Racers says that Max Harvey's hill climb car was ex Henton. My programme notes from Gurston Down in August 1980 says 792-21. This does not fit. Mason also says that Roger Willoughby acquired a 792 from Harvey in 1984. At the May Gurston Down meeting in 1985 alongside the programme entry for Roger Willoughby March-Buick DG84 (3.5) I recorded 792-21. 792-21 was next seen in 1997 at a sprint, with a 2 litre Vauxhall, driven by Richard Prosser.



I saw 792-19 Hart at Thruxton in 1979 driven by Juan Traverso/March Racing Team. At the Silver Jubilee meeting (of the BARC at Thruxton) in 1993, Marc Surer was in a March 792 BMW, chassis number recorded as 19. By the way he was on pole and won the race (F2 cars). He appeared with the same car at the Goodwood Festival of Speed meeting in 1994 and 1996 under the banner of BMW Mobile Tradition. I seem to recall that it was pointed out that it was not an original BMW team car, but one that had been painted up to represent their entries in F2.


As mentioned on the March 802 thread, Kim Mather's 802-22 Hart became an AC 3000 special saloon/GT car (Bill Paul 1985-6 and Ron Cumming 1988 were my observations).

[driftwood]

surer was "given" the car by BMW

[hillclimber26]

I am intrigued by the 792-31.

From memory Charles Williams wrote this car off at Prescott in 1989 or 1990 but then re appeared with it the following season with it fully rebuilt by John Travis. I think the tub was completly re skinned by Travis in 1990 using his original jigs, so I reckon the car is a replica and only the 'entity' of the car exists now. I don;t think the car ever really worked on the hillclimbs anyway.

[allenbrown]

A reskinned tub doesn't make it a replica. If it did, we'd be knee deep in replicas in historic racing by now (as opposed to ankle deep ).

Allen

[james_williams]

http://www.motorbase.com/auctionlot/by-id/861892666/

Dear All,

This was "our" old March BRD 792 (of Charles Williams fame). This description lists it as chassis number 8. What do you guys make of this? Surely this can;t be right based on your comments above. I would be interested to know what you think.

Thanks

James

[driftwood]

WELL THE STORY IS HALF TRUE IT WAS BUILT BY JOHN TRAVIS!!

I THINK U JAMES KNOW THE REAL STORY
YR FATHER SOLD THE CAR IN 1994? AS A BRD 792 NOT MARCH 792 WITH CHASSIS TAG & #
I THINK THE CAR OWNER IS TELLING A FEW PORKY PIES !!

[james_williams]

This is the truest statement about the "BRD 792" for those of you interested as investigated by Charles.

"Suspect the Americans have taken "poetic license" with the March. The chassis number is 792/83 meaning it was re-built in 1983 on a Travis tub. They have ignored the 3 in 83 and then attached the history to the car of chassis number 8 which may well have been as stated. Travis built "our" car out of two chassis he had, but essentially it was a Travis-BRD car. When i traced the history back, it appeared that the chassis's came from a combination of Project 4, who ran Andrea De Cesaris in 1979, and the car run for Ford Argentina , by the March factory, for an Argentinian driver who i can't remember. The engine was originally bought by Creighton Brown for his Ardmore racing team and run in Chevrons (that was verified by Hart's themselves)

Simply put however, that car does not have continuous history, because John Travis basically bought a pile of 792 bits in 1980, built up a car which he raced in Formula Libre, didn't like how it handled and then built his own chassis for it and called it a BRD."

Driftwood, good guess on the year, we sold it in 1995.

James

[allenbrown]

So what happened to 792-31?

Looking through the data I've accumulated, I have 792-31 with John Cooper in Aurora in 1979, don't know where it is in 1980; Jim Evans borrows it from Kim Mather for libre in early 1981; then Dans says Kim raced it in Atlantic in 1981. Is it then the car that Travis uses in libre in 1982?

Did this car then get rebuilt with a Travis tub in 1983 as the BRD-March? And is this rebuilt/reconstructed car then the one that Charles Williams drove in the late 1980s or was that an extra car built by Travis?

Allen

[driftwood]

I can understand why Travis made his own chassis; the 792 was a donkey; it suffered from porpoising due to March's lack of GE knowledge.

Surer won f2 title not by having a good car!!
I think there where 2 other guys who could have won the series that year

[Dan Rear]

The Argie mentioned above was Juan Traverso, not very fast at all! Unusally for a works entered March, it used a Hart motor, as the sponsor, Ford Motor Argentina, didn't want to use a Bimmer.

This car was NOT 792-31 though, that car was John Cooper's in 1979, bought, I think, by Jim Evans, in late 1980, for Kim to use in Atlantic in 81 here. OTOH Jim E may have had the odd Libre race in it that year too.

It was sold to John Travis for the 82 season, Libre only, and retained the 'lovely' brown Aycliffe livery, but not the Aycliffe markings of course. John T later built his 'BRD' based on the design of the 792, but with a different tub, much like his 75S clone.

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

It was sold to John Travis for the 82 season, Libre only, and retained the 'lovely' brown Aycliffe livery, but not the Aycliffe markings of course. John T later built his 'BRD' based on the design of the 792, but with a different tub, much like his 75S clone.

Thanks Dan. So does anyone know where 792-31 went after that 1982 libre season?

[allenbrown]

One more for our list of unknown 792s: Mieusset has one in 1979 which he debuts at St-Antonin on 24/25 May 1979.

[driftwood]

Chris t said his on page 1All of this information is based on contemporary journals and my own observations of Aurora AFX and British F2 races

1: Not known, so guessing at works test car
2: Works for Gabbiani [A/S Thruxton]
3: Galica with Hart 420R, retained 1980 then to Anders Olofsson [A/S 26 Feb 81 p. 7]
4: Not knowni think this could be japan f2 car i was offered
5: Henton for Wolfgang Locher, Cocho Lopez. 1980: Max Harvey (h.c) [AS 20.3.80 p. 47] retained 1981
6: San Remo: Ariel Bakst
7: Minardi: Michel Angel Guerra
8: Minardi: Clay Regazzoni/Ferrante Ponti
9: Not known
10: Not known
11: Theodore: Derek Warwick with Hart 420R->Theodore: Keegan [Macau] with BDA
12: Not known
13: Not known
14: Not known
15: ICI: Derek Daly/Keijo Rosberg/Andrea de Cesaris. AS Cheever uses ex Daly 792 in JAF GP 1.11.79 p. 3 suggesting sold to Japan end of season
the euro season finished before the winter Japan races ran into november perhaps the car competes last 1 or 2 rounds?
16: ICI: Stephen South
17: Works: Teo Fabi w/o practice Nurburgring April
18: Works: Marc Surer; f/s OT 9.7.81 p. 38 Sans Thompson, 792 March ex Marc Surer in Atlantic trim with spares Sans Racing Werks, 9940 N.Vancouver Way Portland OR97217; Thompson says run for Katy Rude in a couple of races, then sold to Phil Simon, retained to 1985
19: Salisbury: Juan Traverso; Car with this plate taken by works to 1980 NZ series for de Cesaris and sold to Ken Smith
20: Norman Dickson with Hart 420R; 1980:Paul Gibson; 1981: Bob Leckie [FL]
21: Tiga: Eje Elgh
22: Not known
23: Patrese [Macau] taken to NZ by works for De Cesaris and destroyed in accident.
24: Not known
25: Not known
26: Not known
27: Not known
28: Not known
29: Works: Ricardo Zunino/Rupert Keegan (Vallelunga);Giancarlo Martini (Mugello)/Stefan Johansson (Donington)
30: Not known
31: John Cooper (Eddie Jordan: Donington); 1981: Kim Mather; 1982 John Travis [e mail Dan Rear] 1983: Andy Barton [AC3000 Super Saloon]
32: Daly [Macau] with BDA then Thackwell in NZ adn sold to Ken Smith as was the law in NZ for all race cars.
14 cars unknown" but 10 drivers plus Allens latest find for Miuesset
Unknown 1979
Saturo Nakajima (JAP) appears Marchposs #4
Salisbury: Marcus Hottinger appears April
Andre Chevalley appears Aprilmaybe then to mieussetif not raced again?
Works: Spare car, original test car used by Surer in testingpos#/
San Remo: Flammini (Vallelunga)/"Gianfranco" (Mugello)/Pedersoli (Enna)/Paletti (Misano)
Walter Raus
Siegfried Stohr (Hockenheim)
Theodore: Spare car, not raced by Warwick before Enna [this might be the Macau car]
Works: Anders Olofsson (Zandvoort)/Gabbiani (Enna)might be 29
Le Mans: Keijo Rosberg (3rd JAF GP)who raced the car after kekes race?

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

792-5 - Max Harvey ran this in 1980 & 1981 with a 2.2 litre Hart 420R engine
792-21 - currently owned by Richard Prosser who last sprinted it with a two litre Vauxhall unit installed (I am trying to fill in the blanks from Tiga to Prosser).

1988 - Adrian Moores runs a 792 with a 3.9 Buick V8

Some news on the ABOVE:

March 792-5 and 792-21 were BOTH bought by MAX HARVEY

March 792-21 was sold by Max as a roller to Roger 'Doc' Willoughby who installed a Buick V8 into it.

Willoughby sold the car to Adrian Moores who subsequently had a BIG shunt at the Brighton Speed Trials in the car.

Moores sold the wreck to Roy Woodhouse who stripped what was instantly reuseable off the wreck and used the tub as a step up into one of the sheds on his farm!

Richard Prosser bought the wreck off Woodhouse and rebuilt it installing a Vauxhall two litre unit. He ran it in the British Sprint Championship until he blew up he engine. He has subsequently installed another Vauxhall 2 litre in the car but his work with Morgan has meant he hasn't got it back on track other than a shake-down at Llandow.

Prosser still has the car in storage and is working in his spare time on restoring another of the Roy Woodhouse March chassis - the ex-Ian Schecter 822.

[Dan Rear]

Good stuff Steve, any more old March details going !

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

Good stuff Steve, any more old March details going !

A bit tied up with that book at the moment. Hope to get everything off to the publisher by Mid March when I will be able to get down to some serious ferreting!

[driftwood]

I noticed we have not discussed directoy the March 792 but its been mentioned in the 782 802 type threads plus the &3-75S car thread
I know this car raises eyebrow1s but i us eit to start this thread
Now sold in usa
"This Championship-winning design is race ready with a totally correct, fresh Hart 420R. The car was completely restored by J. Travis, current Penske Indy car designer. He purchased the car in the mid 80s and completely restored it, including doing a stress analysis on the tub before reskinning it! Everything is right, tested, rebuilt, and ready to go. The Hart 420R, with American MSD electrics replacing the expensive and unreliable Lucas "system" is the best example anywhere. No exception, no conditions, The Best. The car has been accepted by Monoposto Racing as eligible for the Formula 70 series running a flat bottom and no skirts."

This car i think we have discussed is the replica Travis built car that was then with sprinter Charles williams and son James has mentioned some points about the car
Did we agree that John Travis never had a real 792 car?
Adam F /Chris do you have any lists
I know Marc Surer has the "use" of the works 1979 c/ship winning car he drove

Davian Galica drove a 792
did Norman Dickenson race 792 in Aururo

I know the cars where not "loved" March`s first GE car I think they where a 782 based car with GE pods fitted and it suffered from porpoising at high speed

[Dan Rear]

Drifty, John T DID have a real 792, I'm sure. It was the ex- John Cooper car, no-31, used by JC in 1979. Dormant in 80, then by Kim in FAt in 81, when owned and occasionally run by Jim Evans, the latter in the odd Libre race in 81. I'm sure we've been here before, years ago now...