Vettel (DEU) vs Webber (AUS) part 3 - Page 37

OZ_HCR32 · 30 Aug 2011, 11:50 (Ref:2948254)

I tend to agree with Mac.... I think Webber seems pretty positive as his racepace is about on par with Seb and accepts that he hasnt executed a clean race weekend all year. I think Webber will bag a win at either Brazil or Japan myself. Wont change his WDC prospects but it will be a major failure if he cant string together a win in such a strong car\team

stripedcat · 30 Aug 2011, 12:44 (Ref:2948285)

Mark seems to be a bit more confident nowadays. It would be good to see him take another win.

I still think he is going to have his work cut out, with taking on Vettel next year though.

Mr V · 30 Aug 2011, 19:11 (Ref:2948493)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

I think Webber will bag a win at either Brazil or Japan myself.

Brazil "possibly" but Vettel has owned Japan these last 2 years, Abu Dhabi too. I personally think, that judging on recent history, which admittedly isn't the only thing, that Seb will have the legs on Mark at Monza, Singapore, Japan, Korea, Abu Dhabi and Brazil, so that leaves India for Mark's shot at a win.

**Bononi** · 30 Aug 2011, 19:17 (Ref:2948496)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

...so that leaves India for Mark's shot at a win.

Which will be a long shot...

Mr V · 30 Aug 2011, 19:22 (Ref:2948499)

Maybe Seb will win the title then "let" Mark win a race or two??

And pigs might fly

Mekola · 31 Aug 2011, 01:09 (Ref:2948661)

Herr Doktor Marko won't allow a driver he doesn't respect to win a race over his favourite disciple Vettel. There's no match to Vettel in this year, he'll take the title of this year and of 2012, too.

Mr V · 31 Aug 2011, 13:29 (Ref:2948860)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekola

Herr Doktor Marko won't allow a driver he doesn't respect to win a race over his favourite disciple Vettel. There's no match to Vettel in this year, he'll take the title of this year and of 2012, too.

Mark was "allowed" to beat Seb in 2009 and 2010. What Mark needs to do if he wants to win in 2011 is make better starts and drive as fast as Sebastian.

deeks6 · 31 Aug 2011, 21:22 (Ref:2949097)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

Mark was "allowed" to beat Seb in 2009 and 2010. What Mark needs to do if he wants to win in 2011 is make better starts and drive as fast as Sebastian.

Stop making sense ... how can I argue with you if you keep using logic?

Mekola · 1 Sep 2011, 04:01 (Ref:2949212)

With Dr. Marko Orders... ehem... Team Orders... a Webber's win is literally impossible.

**Adam43** · 1 Sep 2011, 06:29 (Ref:2949229)

Until Webber gets ahead of Vettel we won't really know.

wnut · 1 Sep 2011, 09:13 (Ref:2949263)

When Vettel was at STR in 2008 and Webber was at RBR the qualifying ratio was 7 to 11 in Webber's favour, and the wins 1 to 0 in Vetel's favour.

With or without Herr Doktor Marko.

Me thinks Webber aint gonna beat him any time soon!

Mr V · 1 Sep 2011, 19:29 (Ref:2949562)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeks6

Stop making sense ... how can I argue with you if you keep using logic?

Ooops, sorry

Mr V · 11 Sep 2011, 23:18 (Ref:2954167)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

I think that if Red Bull are the car to beat again this year, and Seb has the same reliability that Mark had in 2010, Seb will win the title with 3 rounds to go.

May have underestimated Vettel, he could do it with 5 races still to go!

Razzzor · 12 Sep 2011, 02:40 (Ref:2954198)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

May have underestimated Vettel, he could do it with 5 races still to go!

Yeah if wins at Singapore with Hamilton second, then he'll be champ won't he? Alonso no better than third eliminates him. If Button or Webber finish second then they'll be 124 points behind Vettel with 5 to go, with 125pts on offer. So they'd have to finish 2nd to stay in contention via a single point.

No matter how you look at it, Vettel is a soon to be champ... even taking 6 rounds off, no one else is dominant enough to win all 6, which they'd almost need to do (5 wins and podium).

Amaroo Park · 12 Sep 2011, 07:25 (Ref:2954237)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekola

Herr Doktor Marko won't allow a driver he doesn't respect to win a race over his favourite disciple Vettel. There's no match to Vettel in this year, he'll take the title of this year and of 2012, too.

He is a bit one eyed in that regard

**chunterer** · 12 Sep 2011, 09:50 (Ref:2954300)

That move on Alonso (so similar to the one Schu did on Teflonso in 2003 at Silverstone?) was mega, mega!

It simply said: 'Move over on me if you like but i'm coming through whatever.'

A true statement to allcomers.

Vettel has confirmed he's got the necessary balls and aggression on track to support his undoubted speed over a lap.

His teammate has absolutely no answer for him and cannot match either the speed or the racecraft like he was able to do last season. Webber's general demeanor quite clearly supports that. Much pausing, sighing and reflecting after almost every question when he doesn't either finish 2nd in qual, or in a race.

deeks6 · 12 Sep 2011, 23:10 (Ref:2954745)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

That move on Alonso (so similar to the one Schu did on Teflonso in 2003 at Silverstone?) was mega, mega!

It simply said: 'Move over on me if you like but i'm coming through whatever.'

A true statement to allcomers.

Vettel has confirmed he's got the necessary balls and aggression on track to support his undoubted speed over a lap.

His teammate has absolutely no answer for him and cannot match either the speed or the racecraft like he was able to do last season. Webber's general demeanor quite clearly supports that. Much pausing, sighing and reflecting after almost every question when he doesn't either finish 2nd in qual, or in a race.

Totally sublime ... comprehensively answered the last lingering question over racecraft mastery. Sorry guys, you're all competing for 2nd place from here on in ... the Sebmeister OWNS No 1

stripedcat · 13 Sep 2011, 01:25 (Ref:2954775)

I love to hear over Alonso's radio, this message : "Sebastian is faster than you. Do you understand, Fernando?" .

OZ_HCR32 · 15 Sep 2011, 08:35 (Ref:2955778)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

.

His teammate has absolutely no answer for him and cannot match either the speed or the racecraft like he was able to do last season.

I still think Mark has better race craft, but no doubt is struggling to match Vettels quali pace. Over a race distance I still think he is in the hunt.

Germany springs to mind. Webber drove and overtook really well. Ditto Spa, and China. Most GPs this year Webber has done good job of moving mid top 10 after the first few laps onto a podium of top 4 finish. Button has more overtakes, but if he qualified where Webber has this year one would doubt he would have any more overtakes then Mark

wnut · 15 Sep 2011, 10:53 (Ref:2955853)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

I still think Mark has better race craft, but no doubt is struggling to match Vettels quali pace. Over a race distance I still think he is in the hunt.

Germany springs to mind. Webber drove and overtook really well. Ditto Spa, and China. Most GPs this year Webber has done good job of moving mid top 10 after the first few laps onto a podium of top 4 finish. Button has more overtakes, but if he qualified where Webber has this year one would doubt he would have any more overtakes then Mark

I'd lay off whatever you are drinking and smoking personally!

HughGJohnson · 15 Sep 2011, 13:01 (Ref:2955923)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

That move on Alonso (so similar to the one Schu did on Teflonso in 2003 at Silverstone?) was mega, mega!

It simply said: 'Move over on me if you like but i'm coming through whatever.'

A true statement to allcomers.

Vettel has confirmed he's got the necessary balls and aggression on track to support his undoubted speed over a lap.

His teammate has absolutely no answer for him and cannot match either the speed or the racecraft like he was able to do last season. Webber's general demeanor quite clearly supports that. Much pausing, sighing and reflecting after almost every question when he doesn't either finish 2nd in qual, or in a race.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeks6

Totally sublime ... comprehensively answered the last lingering question over racecraft mastery. Sorry guys, you're all competing for 2nd place from here on in ... the Sebmeister OWNS No 1

Yeah, there can no longer be any doubt he is a complete racer. The Red Bull's pace at the fast tracks and Vettel's bold and brilliant use of said car must be ominous signs for the other teams and drivers moving forward.

Webber does seem to have stopped the denial and accepted his fate. Now he's struggling desperately just to keep up. Hamilton is getting testy in post race interviews instead of just over the radio and after making a series of mistakes with his usual aggressive style, seems to have backed off (or just didn't have it at Monza). Button seems cool, but keeps talking about having fun. As though he isn't really competing so he might as well enjoy himself. It actually seems to be helping him, however, so maybe the key will be to see if he can keep that attitude when (or if) he has a chance to contend for race wins and a title again.

Mr V · 15 Sep 2011, 13:20 (Ref:2955938)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

I still think Mark has better race craft, but no doubt is struggling to match Vettels quali pace. Over a race distance I still think he is in the hunt.

You've gotta be kidding right??

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

I'd lay off whatever you are drinking and smoking personally!

There have been times when Mark has looked visually stunned at how far off Seb he is.

Mr V · 15 Sep 2011, 13:23 (Ref:2955939)

Actually, a lot of people have, rightly, been raving about Seb's pass on Alonso on sunday, but he also went round the outside of Nico at Spa which hasn't been mentioned but was equally ballsy!

HughGJohnson · 15 Sep 2011, 13:32 (Ref:2955948)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

I still think Mark has better race craft, but no doubt is struggling to match Vettels quali pace. Over a race distance I still think he is in the hunt.

Germany springs to mind. Webber drove and overtook really well. Ditto Spa, and China. Most GPs this year Webber has done good job of moving mid top 10 after the first few laps onto a podium of top 4 finish. Button has more overtakes, but if he qualified where Webber has this year one would doubt he would have any more overtakes then Mark

Forget who has better "race craft" Vettel is a better racer, plain and simple. Even if Webber has better race craft it isn't by nearly the margin he needs to make up for being slower at the start and when a quick lap or two is necessay (Quali, first 2 laps before DRS, after the safety car, in and out laps).

Germany is a great example, Webber finally gets qualifying right and lost the lead before the first corner and couldn't hold the lead when he got it back. Spa was another bad start for Webber, which he made up for but never challenged his teammate who eventually cruised to another easy, boring victory.

Marbot · 15 Sep 2011, 13:38 (Ref:2955950)

Out of all of the drivers in F1, either this season or last season, only one driver actually bothered to go and visit the Pirelli factory last year. No prizes for guessing who that was.

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