Top speeds at Pre-Q

[917Addicted]

Does anyone now what were the top speeds at the Hunaudiére Straight at the Pre-Q?? I would like to compare them to last years, to see who are the one suffering more with the new regs.

[Hooper]

This kind of informations are nearly impossible to get

[Fieldgate]

...but here's the informal inside info

Audi UK 316-320kph
Champion 320-323 kph
Lammer's Dome 323-325kph
Other RfH Dome 320-323kph
Rollcentre 315-319kph
Zytek 304-306kph
Pescarolo 320kph+ (was running with monoplane rear wing)

sorry, these were the only ones we were interested in.

[Hooper]

And there's some other trap speed figure i got on a french magazin...
before indianapolis:
lola judd n4:324
audi n5:326 :confused: (dissapointed)
dallara n6:329
dallara n7:331
audi n8:324 :confused: (dissapointed to)
dome n9:328
lola caterpillar:266 (not ready yet)
nasamax:330
dome n15:333
dome n16:335(the best one)
pesca n17 and n 18:329 (as you said with a one plan wing)
lister:319

edited just to fix the smileys

[Fieldgate]

Interesting isn't it. You need enough speed to draught past cars on the long straights, but enough downforce to take the chicanes & Porsche curves well (where the R8's are unbelievable).

The Champion car was running less downforce than the Audi UK cars, but possibly/probably stiffer springs, but their balance has set them up well for the overall lap time (so there's more to be gained in the handling stakes, than in an extra ~5kph on the straights).

The Zytek was not the quickest thing in a straight line, but an absolute rocket sled through the braking areas and PC's.

I'm surprised the No7 Dallara was that quick (as it was really a learning exercise for them) but there will be more speed (& quicker laps) to come from the No.6 with some new theories.

[Fab]

Notice that, if the top speeds don't improve, the lap times do !

[PascaLM]

For GTS :
Corvette n°64, 301 km/h only,
Ferrari F550 Prodrive n°66 : 314 km/h
Pagani : 303 km/h

For GT :
Porsche n°83 : 299 km/h
Modena n°92 : 292 km/h

All these limited measurements don't reflect necessarely the reality.

[PascaLM]

Originally posted by Fieldgate
Pescarolo 320kph+ (was running with monoplane rear wing)

The restrictors regulations suit the Judd 5L. The resulting power and torque are obviously higher than the Peugeot V6 2T did.
So it gives 280 km/h before Dunlop chicane which is the best speed and 329 km/h before Indianapolis.
Last year, the top speeds of the Pescarolo's C60 were 317 and 320 km/h.

(sources : Autohebdo)

[Pilgrimage]

Originally posted by Fab
Notice that, if the top speeds don't improve, the lap times do !

Just goes to prove the old LM theory that fastest doesn't always win the race!!! I love it!

[Fieldgate]

Exactly. How many times have we seen RfH be ballistic for 2 laps then progressively work their way back down the field.

A lot will depend on how well the different chassis treat their tyres over a stint (~ 13 laps ??) or 3.

[bernard b]

Originally posted by PascaLM
...All these limited measurements don't reflect necessarely the reality.

especially when they've been measured there between 11h and 13h ...
they were probably faster just before 6pm

[Fogelhund]

Where are you all getting this information? Is there a link, or source where I can get the whole field? Thank You.

[Fab]

Originally posted by Pilgrimage
Just goes to prove the old LM theory that fastest doesn't always win the race!!! I love it!

My point, precisely : see the speed fot the Vettes and Ferraris, and how the Chevies kicked Maranello's butt on one lap (I'm still amazed, BTW) ?

Well, let's make this clear : beeing dramaticaly slow does'nt help, but Le Mans is not three straights any more, there's now a lot of difficult curves (Dunlop, La Chapelle to Tertre Rouge, Indianapolis/Arnage, and the whole new area between Porsche curves and Ford esses) ; just see how fast are the best ones in those places (Audis), and the place that took the pilot in the performance ; you could have a fast car, if you haven't the knack, then forget it...

[Fieldgate]

Originally posted by Fogelhund
Where are you all getting this information? Is there a link, or source where I can get the whole field? Thank You.

...from my side, the paddock, our aero-guy talking to other drivers/engineers

[jhansen]

Fab you took the words right out of my mouth. Le Mans is totally different than it used to be. It's much more of a downforce track these days. The Audi has never had stellar trap speeds. That should surprise nobody on this forum. But, their overall lap times are superior. And they were superior by a lot at the test day. Those cars are beautifully balanced and run quickly on any track type.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by jhansen
Fab you took the words right out of my mouth. Le Mans is totally different than it used to be. It's much more of a downforce track these days. The Audi has never had stellar trap speeds. That should surprise nobody on this forum. But, their overall lap times are superior. And they were superior by a lot at the test day. Those cars are beautifully balanced and run quickly on any track type.

Bill Riley said that three years ago in a brief interview with MulsanneMike on his site...


It's titled "Bill Riley on the MkIIIC", and when you open that link, the subheading is "Three questions for Bill Riley"

He even noted that in 2000, he ran more downforce at Le Mans than he did at Daytona....

It's something the aero engineers have known for quite some time now....

[Hooper]

Originally posted by jhansen
Fab you took the words right out of my mouth. Le Mans is totally different than it used to be. It's much more of a downforce track these days. The Audi has never had stellar trap speeds. That should surprise nobody on this forum. But, their overall lap times are superior. And they were superior by a lot at the test day. Those cars are beautifully balanced and run quickly on any track type.

Now, i would like to know if the relativ lack of top speed of the audis compared to some others is due to a power deficit or the drag generated by their bodyworks which generate a lot of downforce. Remember that the audis use only 30.7 restrictors compared to the 31.7 of the judd in the domes..

[jhansen]

If you go to http://www.mulsannescorner.com/ there is a list of trap speeds from past Le Mans races (scroll down left side of the page). As to why it's slower, I'm not sure of the technical explanation. But in my opinion the downforce that Audi designed into the car is purposeful and not an accident. I don't see it as a flaw, as you seem to suggest. They know the fast way around Le Mans and it doesn't have anything to do with having the best trap speed. They want the lowest lap time and that's what they are getting.

[jhansen]

2003
Dome S101 Judd #15, 333km/h (best overall)
Audi R8 #6, 319km/h (best Audi)

2002
Dome S101 Judd #16, 337km/h (best overall)
Audi R8 #2, 329 km/h (best Audi)

2001
Bentley EXP Speed 8 #7, 333km/h (best overall)
Audi R8 #2, 328km/h (best Audi)

2000
Reynard Judd #24, 329km/h (best overall)
Audi R8 #7 & 9, 325km/h (best Audi)

1999
Toyota GT-One #1, 351km/h (best overall)
Audi R8R #7 & 8, 335km/h (best Audi)

I utilized the practice speeds only. Race speeds vary slightly, but you get the general idea. In 2001 the #1 R8 (which won the race) had a best speed of 306km/h (practice) and 307km/h (race).

[bernard b]

Originally posted by Fogelhund
Where are you all getting this information? Is there a link, or source where I can get the whole field? Thank You.

from auto-hebdo ... and sorry, no link for it

[krt917]

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
It's something the aero engineers have known for quite some time now....

Yes, probably since all the Porsche teams bar two got caught out with long-tail bodywork in 1990. The two quickest 962s were the short-tails and they were 2-4 with 15 min. to go (still feel sorry for the Brun boys!).

[Fab]

The main work remains in the speeds in curves, IMHO... and something we systematicaly forget : braking.

Braking late : that's where stayed the difference between Bentleys and Audis in 2002 (have a look at the ACO's tape).

And that what Sebastien Borudais said about the Maranellos : awfully difficult to take over in the straight parts of the track (due to the speed of the car), even with an LMP900, but thanks to the difference in braking, the LMPs remain faster...

[Fab]

And remember that the show stays mainly in the curves... could you make a difference between 320 and 330 km/h when you're watching the race from the banking ?

[marcush.]

with the new aeroregs you loose efficiecy so you just crank the wing up a bit and voila more downforce and with much more drag,no increase in topspeed possible ,one should think.
Honestly ,the Audis did not really look very good around the cornersdown the Dunlop esses and at tertre rouge,but they were mega on the corner approach to dunlop and accelerating out of the corners.
Audi UK and Team Goh were significantly softer in setup than the Champion Audi with lots of vertical movement.I have my own ideas why this is so and would bet the Audis run lots of downforce compared to the Zytek and the dome.

[Rhino]

It will be interesting to see what the group C boys do.