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Old 4 May 2005, 13:06 (Ref:1292833)   #1
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V8 impact?

I know much has been already speculated concerning the V8 returning to F1. Honda's version is fast right out of the box, I would assume all versions will be lighter and more fuel efficient. It's certain that we will get more than a few surprises; there is much speculation already that the Japanese manufacturers may reign and will be tough to beat. After reading the following article, it got me to thinking that the V8 engine rule will change F1 in many ways:

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns14730.html
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Old 4 May 2005, 13:27 (Ref:1292844)   #2
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itv are saying that it was 4 seconds a lap slower. I'd expect the smaller/lighter package will help the aeor of the cars immensly - maybe they will be slower down the straights and faster round the corners
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Old 4 May 2005, 13:53 (Ref:1292857)   #3
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There are changes to the chassis/aero rules next year too.
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Old 4 May 2005, 13:54 (Ref:1292859)   #4
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Glen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGlen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGlen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
That story suggests that the V8 was the fastest car of the day...
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Old 4 May 2005, 14:42 (Ref:1292885)   #5
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Aren't Minardi planning to run a V10 - rev-limited ?

Anybody else know about this ?

Rob
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Old 4 May 2005, 14:44 (Ref:1292886)   #6
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Originally Posted by grandprixdiary
Aren't Minardi planning to run a V10 - rev-limited ?

Anybody else know about this ?
See here: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68631
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Old 4 May 2005, 14:44 (Ref:1292887)   #7
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Alex Hodgkinson should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Wonder why Geoff Willis says "In some ways more similar to a MotoGP engine than an actual F1 V10...?"

What else has been changed in the engine department rules?

Obviously they're 600cc smaller and 2 cylinders down, but what else is different if anything I wonder...
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Old 4 May 2005, 16:52 (Ref:1292978)   #8
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maximus should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridmaximus should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Smaller engine = huuge RPM I think! Cosworths V8 has been reported to produce over 20,000 RPM! Thats where the Moto GP comparison may come from.
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Old 4 May 2005, 16:58 (Ref:1292984)   #9
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Smaller engine = huuge RPM I think! Cosworths V8 has been reported to produce over 20,000 RPM! Thats where the Moto GP comparison may come from.
The 94 Benetton Ford V8 3.5ltr revved to about 14,000 rpm i think,so it's quite a jump isn't it.
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Old 4 May 2005, 17:17 (Ref:1292999)   #10
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The rev. rise comes from the reduction in cc not cylinders. Generally the higher the number of cyclinders the higher the max rpm (for the same cc). So a V10 should rev more than a V8 of the same size. Here we have a drop from 3.5l to 2.4l (and a decade of development).
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Old 4 May 2005, 17:25 (Ref:1293006)   #11
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Originally Posted by AdamAshmore
The rev. rise comes from the reduction in cc not cylinders. Generally the higher the number of cyclinders the higher the max rpm (for the same cc). So a V10 should rev more than a V8 of the same size. Here we have a drop from 3.5l to 2.4l (and a decade of development).
Can't the V8 rev just as high because it doesn't suffer from the crank twist that affects V10,12s etc ?
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Old 4 May 2005, 17:45 (Ref:1293031)   #12
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Yes, but a V8 produces less power thus has lower RPM's.
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Old 4 May 2005, 17:53 (Ref:1293038)   #13
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Originally Posted by ASCII Man
Yes, but a V8 produces less power thus has lower RPM's.
Many small (400-600 4-cylinder) "road going" m/cycles can easily rev to 15-17,000 rpm,emphasis on the "road going" here.
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Old 4 May 2005, 18:23 (Ref:1293069)   #14
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So could my 50cc 2-stroke Honda NSR...
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Old 5 May 2005, 01:08 (Ref:1293311)   #15
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My 2c

A V8 will make more torque than a V10 or V12 of the same capacity due to the area the combustion flame front will hit in relation to piston size, IE larger bore more surface area however due to the heavier rotating mass the revs will be lower.

V10 or V12 of the same capacity has to rev higher to make up for the lack of torque which it can due to a lighter rotating mass IE smaller pistons and rods.

HP = Torque X RPM / 5252

800HP = 233ftlbs X 18000 RPM / 5252 approx
800HP = 280ftlbs X 15000 RPM / 5252 approx

2 different ways to achieve the same result
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Old 5 May 2005, 08:34 (Ref:1293479)   #16
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Glen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGlen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGlen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
As I understand it, it is the shorter crankshaft which gives the potential for higher rpm than the V10. Power is a product partly of higher rpm, so it is not right to say that a lower volume=less power=lower rpm. Total power will not rival the current engines, but power per cc will be higher.
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Old 5 May 2005, 08:52 (Ref:1293486)   #17
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The higher rpm comes from a lower crankshaft, rods, and piston weight as it is this weight that needs to be accelerated. An engine of the same size, but with more cylinders should rev more due to the individual piston weight.
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Old 5 May 2005, 08:56 (Ref:1293493)   #18
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Do the 2006 engines have a regulatory minimum weight?
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Old 5 May 2005, 08:59 (Ref:1293496)   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAshmore
The higher rpm comes from a lower crankshaft, rods, and piston weight as it is this weight that needs to be accelerated. An engine of the same size, but with more cylinders should rev more due to the individual piston weight.
Piston weight, rod weight etc are all likely to be very similar - check this by reading elsewhere by all means (try Atlas Technical forum) but the prime reason that the new V8s will rev higher is shorter, lighter crank with reduced vibration problems.
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Old 5 May 2005, 09:04 (Ref:1293500)   #20
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That is because the new engines are smaller not because they are V8 though. A V12 of the same size revs higher than a V8, as I understand.
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Old 5 May 2005, 09:43 (Ref:1293515)   #21
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That is the conventional wisdom - but there again conventional wisdom ten or less years ago had it that the rev ceiling in F1 would be about 15,000 rpm! Generally it is true that the smaller the pistons and valvegear the higher the rpm potential, but that wisdom assumes that you haven't already run into the ceiling for another reason, such as the harmonics in the (long) crank.
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Old 5 May 2005, 15:08 (Ref:1293759)   #22
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Do the 2006 engines have a regulatory minimum weight?
95 KG.

Also,98mm max bore,compulsary 90 degree V angle,4 valves per cylinder and much more.

Plus, as far as i'm aware,they have to last for six races!
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Old 5 May 2005, 18:45 (Ref:1293881)   #23
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95 KG.

Also,98mm max bore,compulsary 90 degree V angle,4 valves per cylinder and much more.

Plus, as far as i'm aware,they have to last for six races!
The rules are too strict. This have nothing to do with the "pennacle of motor racing" any more.

And no, the engines must last two race weekends.
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Old 5 May 2005, 18:53 (Ref:1293890)   #24
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Maybe I'm out to lunch, but I thought that F1 had pretty much reached the point that being able to control the movement of the valves was actually what was putting an upper limit on rpm???

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Old 6 May 2005, 09:13 (Ref:1294203)   #25
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Originally Posted by shiny side up!
Maybe I'm out to lunch, but I thought that F1 had pretty much reached the point that being able to control the movement of the valves was actually what was putting an upper limit on rpm???

Yea - that's kinda right I think - plus that limit also corresponds with other limitiations like crank vibration, and other factors like internal friction/pumping forces. There is plenty of talk of over 20000rpm and 4 stroke bike engies have gone much higher than that - even with normal valve springs.
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