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Old 28 Jun 2005, 22:21 (Ref:1342410)   #1
EVO1X
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Move Rallycross to winter

What about moving the MSA British rallycross championship to the winter If I remember right did rallycross not start off as a winter sport and was very successful. With cars sliding around on muddy circuits with dirty windscreens it would offer more spectacle to the TV companies and the spectators, would not have to complete with all the other forms off motorsport and surely get track hire cheaper. The events could run from August bank holiday Monday at Lydden to Easter Monday at Lydden with 2 rounds at Mondello to incorporate the Irish championship and rounds in Wales and Scotland and maybe able to afford a round at Brands in November/December. The WRC have talked about moving to the winter for more TV coverage so could rallycross beat them to it, I think it has more to offer? And would leave the summer free for drivers to go to RSS or ERC and it might encourage rally and race drivers to have a go when there is nothing else on?
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Old 29 Jun 2005, 00:39 (Ref:1342455)   #2
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Lydden on a sunny Bank Holiday Monday Croft on a Boxing Day Now let me think about that !!!
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Old 29 Jun 2005, 06:06 (Ref:1342533)   #3
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I think the suggestion to move the BRC to the winter has a lot going for it especially if we start to see more of the top contenders contesting the ERC during the summer. For it to work there would need to be an upfront committment by the drivers to undertake most of the championship rounds as otherwise the whole thing fails on cost / economic grounds. I have tried to run "winter series" without a lot of support and I know that D and D had problems with support for their winter rounds.

I think the TV issue is important and I agree that we should get more coverage but dare I say that the winter tv schedules are dominated by the F word (football).

Having said all this I think it would be a good idea for the senior organisers to pick this up and at least carry out a full scale feasability study but it must involve all parties - drivers / circuit owners and the TV.

To put a slight damper on the situiation my personal experience is that the circuit owners will not play ball with reduced circuit hire (even charging a full days hire on new years day when if you are lucky you might get 6 hours track availability). Also if you run in the winter you will certainly not be able to run until 6 thus reducing the number of heats / entries with a direct impact on revenue.

How about a circuit putting in floodlights and running the finals under lights (or even fit headlights as in rallying) - now that would be spectacular.
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Old 29 Jun 2005, 06:28 (Ref:1342540)   #4
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From a personal point of view I think that this idea may have a lot going for it.
Speaking as a person of more advanced years I can remember the 'old' days of axle deep mud and the wipers with constant wash going full bore and still only a smeary hole to see through.
Rallycross was developed for the winter and it may work reverting back to that idea.
Only down side is how many paying members of the public will it attract when they are likely to be be freezing their tender parts off and getting a reduced programme due to the dark afternoons.
The idea of floodlight could work but there will be as always a cost implication.
Still worth a lot of consideration though.
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Old 29 Jun 2005, 12:16 (Ref:1342744)   #5
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Summer's the way forward!

Most people involved in the Irish Championship are looking for more summer events as the cold weather in the winter means very small crowds. Proof of this was round 2 of the championship where the good weather brought the crowds flocking to Mondello compared to approx 150 people in last round of 2004 chship. Can't imagine the hill in Lydden being packed on a dull winters day? As for Anglesea or others, the crowds are small enough without giving bad weather as another excuse to stay at home. Look how successful the ERC is with its calendar..
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Old 29 Jun 2005, 13:04 (Ref:1342792)   #6
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leonidas should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridleonidas should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid

Well, I guess they could at least pilot a winter MSA round on, say, Boxing Day. Most motorsports fans are bored and have nothing to do. There is never anything on except the plum pudding meeting at Mallory park.

I don't think weather is as much of an issue as some people think. After all how many rally fans are prepared to stand ankle-deep in mud in Welsh forests? In the absence of anything else I often often follow the four-legged variety of racing in the winter months. Some horse racing tracks (such as Leicester) get some of their biggest crowds during the Christmas and new year holidays (even though the quality of the animals racing is often modest to say the least)...
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Old 29 Jun 2005, 13:36 (Ref:1342837)   #7
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Agree. Move it back to its roots. We spoke about this before and IIRC we concluded that it was started by the Beeb to fill in cold winter tv afternoons. Then it took off. Maybe this would be a way of improving the tv coverage too.

And with the greatest of respect to our Irish friends there is a bit of a difference between the circuit activities in your lovely country and the rest of the British Isles where rallycross competes with many other motorsport events on the same weekend.
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Old 29 Jun 2005, 14:30 (Ref:1342915)   #8
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Originally Posted by Peter Mallett
And with the greatest of respect to our Irish friends there is a bit of a difference between the circuit activities in your lovely country and the rest of the British Isles where rallycross competes with many other motorsport events on the same weekend.
There are plenty of motorsports events running during the summer over here with national and international rallies running every other week which would be a large draw on any Rallycross crowd. In my opnion the point is that even with these events on a bigger crowd will turn up on a summer day than a cold, rainy day in November weather that be the UK or Ireland. Yes you will have some lunatics standing in a forest up to in the knees muck but run the same event on a nice day you will always get a bigger crowds as locals or fair weather fans will allways swell numbers.

Although I can see the that there could be a benefit with a better chance of a t.v slot, this would be in part be offset by the drop in crowds on track.
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Old 29 Jun 2005, 14:33 (Ref:1342920)   #9
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Roundy,

There are rallies in the UK as well. My point was that in terms of circuit events there are many more circuits and many more events to compete with every weekend.
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Old 30 Jun 2005, 14:18 (Ref:1343871)   #10
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Originally Posted by Peter Mallett
Roundy,

There are rallies in the UK as well. My point was that in terms of circuit events there are many more circuits and many more events to compete with every weekend.
Peter while your point is valid, i would like to draw your attention to the fact that even tho rallycross is a circuit sport it still retains its rallycar image.

In ireland at any given weekend you are most definately going to have a rally on somewhere, which takes away from our spectator numbers sligthly as most rallycross fans are die hard rally fans aswell!

Thats just my point on it.
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Old 30 Jun 2005, 14:24 (Ref:1343874)   #11
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Fair point wassname. So what you say is that no matter what time of the year spectator numbers will be limited?
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Old 30 Jun 2005, 14:40 (Ref:1343885)   #12
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Not sure that's always going to be the case - the Lydden rallycross meetings have often clashed with BTCC meetings at Brands Hatch and the Lydden crowd has been very good.

The winter series meetings at Lydden were cold but great fun with all the dirt flying about and coating the cars, but at winter meetings you certainly would have a smaller crowd as the 'casual' element would be put off by the weather leaving the die hards on the banks huddled round their cuppas.
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Old 30 Jun 2005, 14:45 (Ref:1343887)   #13
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Bert,

Everyone knows that us northern "yuropeens" can light bar b q's in the rain. Why not huddle round one of those instead?

The last Rallycross meeting I attended was Lydden in February 1981 (sorry but I've been busy ) and it was well attended by the local RS register. I recall I drove my "slightly" tuned up Capri GTXLR down from London and had a great race with an XJ6. Ah the pre camera days.

Anyway again the point is valid but then again the TV coverage would possibly be better because there's less competition. I mean how many times can Motors tv repeat le Mans, Bathurst etc.

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Old 30 Jun 2005, 19:04 (Ref:1344104)   #14
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Having marshaled rallycross for over 20 years I would like to add my own thoughts. Having seen rallycross in winter and summer, I believe summer is far preferable for the following reasons:-

1. Tracks are faster in summer (no mud baths slowing the cars down) so better TV spectacle.
2. Sponsors - better TV coverage for sponsors (I can recall many occasions when it was hard to know which car was which in the mud - let alone see any sponsors livery).
3. Less unavoidable accidents (cars are harder to control in mud).
4. More spectators - as has been said the winter months will reduce casual spectotor numbers.
5. Better "feel good" factor - watching racing on TV is more appealing when the grass is green, the sky blue, etc on a warm summers day.
6. Less competition from football and rugby.
7. More daylight hours to run races - better value for drivers and spectators.

I don't expect everyone to agree though!

P.S. See you all at Lydden August Bank Holiday Monday.
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Old 30 Jun 2005, 19:28 (Ref:1344138)   #15
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Gnomex, your last point about the daylight hours is the very reason that Irish Rallycross was moved from its December and January dates.
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Old 30 Jun 2005, 21:23 (Ref:1344245)   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BertMk2
The winter series meetings at Lydden were cold but great fun with all the dirt flying about and coating the cars, but at winter meetings you certainly would have a smaller crowd as the 'casual' element would be put off by the weather leaving the die hards on the banks huddled round their cuppas.
Totally agree with you Bert. The last one I was at was 27th Dec 2003.
A clubby day with the stockhatch /hotrod challenge thrown in.
Rained in the afternoon and was freezing.
There were only about 100 in the crowd. Compare that to the MSA rounds on the two Bank Holidays, with several thousand spectators, and there is no contest but I did enjoy it for all that.
Sad or what
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Old 30 Jun 2005, 23:41 (Ref:1344336)   #17
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Moving Rallycross to the winter. That sounds interesting. I always thought cars going sideways were better than cars going flat out. Maybe we could convert the cars to tarmac spec and go circuit racing in the summer aswell ? This gives you a car you can use all year round.

Obviously there are a few problems with limited daylight and smaller crowds. You might also have less track time but I'm sure there are ways around this. We could run for six weeks on the trot (doesn't give you alot of time to fix your car) but hey thats racing !! Otherwise we could even run a MSA winter championship and then a MSA summer championship (for them wimps)

On a separate note Bert - I'm hoping to finish the Mini soon and debut it at Valkenswaard in Holland. I've also acquired the ex-Tony Bell Toyota MR2 and this should be out before the end of the year in the Modifieds.
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Old 1 Jul 2005, 21:06 (Ref:1345010)   #18
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Reply to Gnomex

thanks for you reply rallycross could not run with out deidacated marshals like your self and I know it would be a lot colder for you and your freinds so thats way your veiws are invalueable, but how much longer can rallycross run the way it going at the minute? I have put some answers to you veiws

1. Tracks are faster in summer (no mud baths slowing the cars down) so better TV spectacle. ( no I dissagree I think it would better spectacle in the dry they are just like racing cars )

2. Sponsors - better TV coverage for sponsors (I can recall many occasions when it was hard to know which car was which in the mud - let alone see any sponsors livery). (The cars could be washed after every race )

3. Less unavoidable accidents (cars are harder to control in mud).
( If the drivers cant drive in mud they should go racing)

4. More spectators - as has been said the winter months will reduce casual
spectotor numbers. (have you ever been to the RAC in November if there are big names then the crowds will be there)
.
6. Less competition from football and rugby.
(I dont think people who watch football and rugby would go to a rallycross event anyway)
7. More daylight hours to run races - better value for drivers and spectators.
(OK you win that one but I still think it possable )
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Old 1 Jul 2005, 21:14 (Ref:1345014)   #19
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3. Less unavoidable accidents (cars are harder to control in mud). (If the drivers cant drive in mud they should go racing)
Oi. I resemble that remark!!!
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Old 2 Jul 2005, 13:24 (Ref:1345412)   #20
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Cryos should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCryos should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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That sounds interesting. I always thought cars going sideways were better than cars going flat out. Maybe we could convert the cars to tarmac spec and go circuit racing in the summer aswell ? This gives you a car you can use all year round.
Then you need a cicuit racing licence
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Old 3 Jul 2005, 15:52 (Ref:1346055)   #21
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Rallycross was not a winter sport at all, it was concieved as a vbery short term thing because the RAC had been cancelled due to foot and mouth and all the horse racing was off so they got the teams who were over anyway to blat round Lydden.
It just deveoped from there.
I see where people are going, but you have to realise that most motorpsort stops in the winter, our sport is largely seasonal whether you are off road on on it and the suppliers and everyone involved need their time off to develop, re-cuperate and so on.
It is a good idea in basic form but the fans arent interested and you are not gonna get any casual interest.
Have to admit I used to like the winter stuff like the TVS series and Lydden winterseries, but I dont think we have the numbers in the country to support anything other than a southern series based around Lyddn and Brands, at least that way you have a large pool of people who might get interested, drievrs would not be keen to go too far away from their base in that time of year me thinks.
Besides I dont think car numbers right now could cover it maybe
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Old 4 Jul 2005, 19:44 (Ref:1347139)   #22
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Big problem I can see.......
This year especially, the cost of track/circuit hire has been a major issue this year. So even in winter I presume that the cost of hiring the track is the same.......... even less spectators this just doesn't make sense, financially.

And I'm a wimp. I don't like the cold. (Those who know me will know that I am always cold at meetings anyway!)
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