Canadian East Zone Formula Championship 1968 (split from-OBSCURE F2 cars 1964-66)

[Marcus Mussa]

I raced against the Conrero in Canada in 1968 - it ran as a Formula B car - it had an Alfa 1600 cc engine which presumably explains the Conrero connection (which is the Turin Conrero, very famous engine tuner who ended up doing Opel rally cars). I will look in my notes for the name of the driver, or maybe I have an old program lying about. I remember crashing trying to get past him at Mosport!

[allenbrown]

Canadian Formula B programs from 1968?! Really?

Please let me know what you find. That's a period I'm very keen to find out more about.

Allen

[KWhittle]

Thanks Marcus
The car was reported as having a 1 litr Conrero tuned version of the Alfa 1290cc TC
Was it successful as a F2 car ??

Kevin

[Marcus Mussa]

Originally Posted by Marcus Mussa

I raced against the Conrero in Canada in 1968 - it ran as a Formula B car - it had an Alfa 1600 cc engine which presumably explains the Conrero connection (which is the Turin Conrero, very famous engine tuner who ended up doing Opel rally cars). I will look in my notes for the name of the driver, or maybe I have an old program lying about. I remember crashing trying to get past him at Mosport!

The driver was Charley Laugesen.
Allen, I do not have much in the way of programs, just a page cut out of one which I found in my father's scrapbook. But I remember it all quite well, so what do you want to know?
The Conrero Alfa FB must have been built in the early 60's and brought over to Canada then fitted with the 1570 cc engine. I do not know what it ran as before, maybe indeed a 1000 cc F2. It was certainly very quick in a straight line as I think I never got past it, but I was only running a FF Lotus 51 and a Formula France Grac (built in Canada and called a Manic) - bet you nobody heard of that!

[allenbrown]

I did spot the odd "Manic" or "Manic-Grac" running in FC in the 1968-1970 period and was always curious whet they were. I never guessed a link the the French Grac firm.

For a while, I've been trying to get some information on CASC's 1968 "Eastern Zone Championship for the Stebro Trophy". Did you race in that series?

Allen

[Marcus Mussa]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

I did spot the odd "Manic" or "Manic-Grac" running in FC in the 1968-1970 period and was always curious whet they were. I never guessed a link the the French Grac firm.

For a while, I've been trying to get some information on CASC's 1968 "Eastern Zone Championship for the Stebro Trophy". Did you race in that series?

Allen

A Grac was bought over to Canada in about May 68 by a Frenchman who lived in Montreal called Jacques About (his father Pierre About was editor of the motoring side of L'Equipe, and a very famous motoring journalist). That car was raced by Eligio Siconolfi. Jacques About must have then done a licensing deal with Grac and built a few which he called Manic (after a hydroelectric plant in Quebec). I drove the first "Manic" in one race and did some testing at St Jovite. It ran a Gordini 1100 cc engine (therefore running in Formula C). I had trouble fitting inside it, even worse than the Lotus 51, but it handled very well and the engine was really strong. The gearbox or clutch mecanism was lousy and I had to run the whole lap in 5th gear! In testing (also all in 5th gear) I went faster than I had with the Lotus 51, before losing a wheel. And we really lost it, we never found it again! I remember seeing it soaring into the air, we looked everywhere, I think it went into the river ... Anyhow About then fitted steel wheels (he only had 4 alloy wheels) and the handling went to hell.
Those were the days - we really were all a bunch of nits!
There was another car raced by a friend of mine called Tim Eddington - he now runs a bookshop in Auckland!
There was also a Manic road car, a bit like an Alpine (French version), with plastic bodywork.
About, through his father's connections, was a great friend of Franco Lini, who was the Ferrari team manager at the time (apart from being a great journalist) - after the 1968 Canadian GP I spent an evening at About's home with Lini looking through all the photos he had taken at the GP! - can you imagine Jean Todt doing that?!

[Marcus Mussa]

Oh, and yes I did do the Eastern zone Formula Championship - do not remember the Stebro bit in the title. The top drivers were Brack (Lotus 41), Couture (Crossle) and Broeker (Stebro) (but he crashed badly that year). Also Peter Roberts in a Brabham. A Moleba-Fiat (heard of that?) and the Lotus 51 bunch (we were about 6 I think) we had to run in FB as FF did not exist in Canada at the time. All purchased from Brack's Lotus dealership in Toronto.

[allenbrown]

Thanks for the Manic background. Named after a hydroelectric plant!!

Do you have any paperwork from that 1968 series that might move me forward a bit? A data of a race? An entry list? A results sheet? Or some suggestions where to look?

That series is the origin of the Atlantic championship that is still running today and it deserves to be properly documented.

Thanks

Allen

[Ol'_Motorhead]

Allen:
Check your email - I'm sending you some info.
I still can't seem to attach anything on this site.
Cheers.

[Marcus Mussa]

Maybe Ol'_Motorhead will turn up with something. At the time (1967/68) Formula cars were really a stopgap. Everybody was into TransAm or CanAm. We used to run at awful hours. I remember once our race was so late that the marshals had to light torches so we could see where the corners were! Of course not all the races counted towards that Championship - I suppose those races were a bit better supported.

[allenbrown]

Many thanks to Ol'_Motorhead for this. Ring any bells Marcus?





Now - who's got the programs for the rest of the races?

Allen

[John Lindsay]

Allen
Check your e mail. I sent some Moleba pictures .
From RPM - The History of Auto Racing in Quebec
1968 A moliba with an fiat 850cc was raced in FC by Nicole Martin-Favreau's all girl team - the car looks very much Lotus 51 . and Andre Leclair will be racing a Moleba Alfa- Romeo in FB
1969 Real desrosiers made his debut of a Stangerlisni Formula 3 car turned into a FB by the Moleba works. The car number is 80 with CJMS as an apparent sponsor. It was also entered at Tremblant on Sept 28,1970 as a CJMS Alfa Romeo Spur .
John Lindsay

[Marcus Mussa]

Allen

I just spent 15 minutes scanning the same programme page, I should have opened the thread first! My page has the results written at the bottom by my father:
1st number 85
2nd number 21
3rd number 69
4th number 52 !!!
5th number 73
Race was 20 laps – about 40 minutes (I got lapped).

The race was the second in the Championship list I have which was:

May 26th St Jovite (winner Jacques Couture – Broeker flipped at fast right hand turn before the loop – ambulance on track etc.). Brack second, 3rd did not record, 4th another Lotus 51 (Brian MacDonald), then Pickthorne (a Formula Junior Lotus 20), some Formula Vees and myself – had an off when a chap in a Merlyn selected reverse at the hairpin and spun in front of me. Poor fellow got killed two weeks later.

21st July – the race in the program – I note Broeker was there so his injuries cannot have been that bad – just a broken back or something – he was a tough bugger. Cargill in the Lotus 51 ahead of me was from the States – he was “parts manager” for Lotus East – very grand sounding! He had a Hewland gearbox and slick tyres – the Canadian Lotus 51 contingent had by then had their engines “blueprinted” by Brack ($1,000 Canadian I noted!) – mine had been blueprinted by an English friend and was starting to run better than in the first race where it was bog standard.

25th August – Mosport. This is where I hit the Conrero, broke an oil pipe and spun off on my own oil. I did not note the result.

8th September – this was the second Three Rivers Grand Prix (I had done the first in a Formula Vee) this time the track was anti-clockwise as it is now. I remember a huge battle between Brack and Couture (they lapped me several times always stuck together), I was very careful as there was lots of prize money! I think Brack won, Couture second. Siconolfi in the Grac finished ahead of me and I was only 7th, but the first Formula Ford – Cargill ran out of fuel (my English friend had fitted my car with an extra tank). Won $120!

13th October – Final at St Jovite – Broeker won, MacDonald second, Eagles (another 51) third and Hochreuter (a FV based car with a bigger engine) 4th. I was 5th. Engine pretty sick by then.

So that was the start of the FB/Atlantic story! – I have also scanned for you a programme from 1965 (Canadian GP at Mosport – the race where John Surtees got so badly injured), and 1966 the first CanAm race at St Jovite (which Surtees won – another tough bugger!) – the programmes show the sort of cars running in Formula races – a mixed bunch – mostly Formula Vees as there was a large German colony in Canada (Horst Kroll/Hans Krusemer etc.). I can send these pages to you (not sure how to put online).

The Moleba – I noted it had a Fiat engine, but also noted it had an Alfa engine, so don’t really know. I went to visit the “factory”. Moleba was a snowmobile manufacturer – they were Italian. The car Leclaire drove in 1968 was in fact a BWA (I think, anyhow it was an Italian F3 chassis and was a monocoque) – actually my notes said he ran in FC so it probably was a Fiat engine – he was very quick. I actually saw a Moleba at Monza a few years ago, not racing but demonstrating – the owner had brought it back from Canada – full circle.

I do not think Formula racing was taken seriously in Canada until the first real Canadian GP in 1967. The SCCA organized a race at St Jovite in September 1967 with a large field of FB cars. A British driver came over – nobody knew him, except for me, and nobody believed me when I said he would win. His name was Peter Gethin – he was on pole but broke down in the race sadly. Most of the other cars were from the States. I suppose Broeker, Brack and Couture are really the ones responsible for getting Formula racing going in Canada. Then there was this young driver from Quebec who started up in Formula Ford in 1973. According to Donaldson he came to spectate at a race (1968?) at St Jovite and thought most of us were ******s – probably a very accurate observation!

Sorry for rambling OT (well I did mention Conrero and BWA you will note).

[Marcus Mussa]

Spell check suggested "walkers" to replace what Gilles really said we were - apologies to Ted!

[allenbrown]

Many thanks for that Marcus. Thanks to some CT&T scans sent to me by Ol'_Motorhead and your post, I'm fairly sure the eight races were:

Harewood Acres 12 May
St Jovite 26 May
Harewood Acres 8 June
Harewood Acres 6 July
St Jovite 21 July
Mosport 25 August
Trois-Rivieres 8 September
St Jovite 13 October

Your post filled the gaps from CT&T of the sixth and eighth races. The Mosport race was the same date as the Continental Championship event but was it a separate race?

I'll have a go at the results and see how much we know.

(BTW, sorry to be hijacking this thread - I wonder if it can be separated out)

Allen

[John Turner]

In response to Allen's sensible suggestion, I have split out the posts concerning specifically the Canadian connection. Hope I've moved all the correct posts! Let me know if I haven't!

[Ol'_Motorhead]

Originally Posted by Marcus Mussa

Allen
I do not think Formula racing was taken seriously in Canada until the first real Canadian GP in 1967. The SCCA organized a race at St Jovite in September 1967 with a large field of FB cars. A British driver came over – nobody knew him, except for me, and nobody believed me when I said he would win. His name was Peter Gethin – he was on pole but broke down in the race sadly. Most of the other cars were from the States. I suppose Broeker, Brack and Couture are really the ones responsible for getting Formula racing going in Canada. Then there was this young driver from Quebec who started up in Formula Ford in 1973. According to Donaldson he came to spectate at a race (1968?) at St Jovite and thought most of us were ******s – probably a very accurate observation!

Interesting stuff!
I dug through my memorabilia and discovered a couple of things. The 1967 CGP had no Formula car race other than the F1 crowd. They ran Touring car and Sports car support races only. Maybe they didn't want to embarrass the FJ/FV guys! More likely they had bigger grids with the other cars and time constraints.
I have the program which shows the entry for the Sept. '67 race mentioned dubbed the "Grand Prix St. Jovite". Gethin was entered in a Brabham. I could scan this and send it to Allen if you'd like to see it.
I don't know about GV watching that particular race but I do know he was there in '70 because he did some novice races in an Alfa Romeo (GTA I think) in which I participated. I'm pleased to be able to say, like so many others, there's no shame in being beaten by him!
Cheers.

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Ol'_Motorhead

I have the program which shows the entry for the Sept. '67 race mentioned dubbed the "Grand Prix St. Jovite". Gethin was entered in a Brabham. I could scan this and send it to Allen if you'd like to see it.

Yes please

I have the results of that race but not the entry list.

Thanks

[Marcus Mussa]

Interesting. I collected the car from Brack in Toronto the day before the first race at Harewood, so I went there. They would not let us race as Formula Ford ran road tyres and there was some rule in Canada that a car capable of over 115 mph had to run on race tyres. By the time they had sorted that out I had decided to leave. I ran the car in the paddock where I said it ran very well and got very dirty. Did not know that was the first race in the Championship. Harewood was rather a long way from Montreal where I was based and a pretty **** track around an airfield with straw bales - not very glamorous. Mosport and St Jovite were fabulous. Still are.

I have found a photo of the grid for the last race - can send it to you. Also a photo with the Moleba.

[Marcus Mussa]

There was a Formula support race with the 1968 GP at St. Jovite, on Sept 22, but it was outside the Championship. Do not know the result except that I finished 8th which I am sure is thrilling news for you. And I won $20! Actually that was quite a lot of money in those days!

[Ol'_Motorhead]

Originally Posted by Marcus Mussa

There was a Formula support race with the 1968 GP at St. Jovite, on Sept 22, but it was outside the Championship.

The program doesn't list any entries other than the F1 teams. I imagine there was an insert for the support races but sadly my copy is missing. There's a bunch of blank lap charts in the program but I was never one to bother filling them out - I'd only get confused and mess them up anyway! There were four support races. Three ten laps each for various classes of sports racing cars and door slammers and the fourth of fifteen laps for Formula B & C. Hey, $1.33 per lap is better than nothing!

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by GeorgeTheCar

Hello all,

I was just directed to this thread by a friend.

I am the Chair of the Archvies committee of the Canadian Motorsport Hall of Fame.

.......... We have a pretty complete set of Canadian road race programs and a wide variety of race results from Eastern Ontario.

Please see full post by George, here:-

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78117

[klaus1]

Hi Marcus
did you once hear something about a Miller Lotus FB 11, it was finished and ran in 1968 at SCCA regional races. The car was constructed by George Miller senior.
Or do you have an idea where I could find something about this car?
Very best regards
Klaus

[Leighton Irwin]

Brian McDonald (Lotus 51) lives in Creemore, On. 1-705-466-3263. I do not have an E-mail address. He was a pretty rough and ready but nice guy who worked for Barrie Tire and Rubber. Good driver and I believe has done well with investments. He has no involvement with racing and hasn't for many years. I talked to him a couple of years ago and we were going to get together but!

[groupseven]

waking this one up, my first post here ! if this is any help, have a photo that I took of laugesen in the conrero,on the grid at tremblant trans-am weekend '68. can't seem to attach images, could e-mail to someone. they are welcome to post here.

mike in ontario