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Old 20 Jul 2021, 15:18 (Ref:4062377)   #201
WyldStallion
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WyldStallion should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridWyldStallion should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridWyldStallion should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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And IMSA making sure we all know the shotgun is aimed squarely at their own foot still, first you disallow the Panoz GT4 and now likely Glickenhaus will be ineligible, and Dodge will have to make their LMH badges.

https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/d...r-eligibility/
Makes me think that this annual "partnership"....in reality participation manufacturer fee is a very big big big deal when it comes to IMSA's bottom line. Mabye their #1 source of revenue. So important that IMSA is willing to sacrifice this.

But how does that explain LMP2 and LMP3 classes as they are not manufacturers? And personally I don't think these two classes bring anything to the IMSA Weathertech series anyway.

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Old 20 Jul 2021, 15:20 (Ref:4062379)   #202
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And IMSA making sure we all know the shotgun is aimed squarely at their own foot still, first you disallow the Panoz GT4 and now likely Glickenhaus will be ineligible, and Dodge will have to make their LMH badges.

https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/d...r-eligibility/
They must really hate the likes of Carol Shelby and everything he stood for. Not to mention Don Panoz, who created the whole gig, as we know it.

Of course, this doesn't so much reflect the views of IMSA, but is in fact indicative on who's calling the shots. And that is not IMSA. It's a group of OEMs. And if they say "guest LMHs" get inferior BoP, that's what will happen.
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Old 20 Jul 2021, 15:28 (Ref:4062383)   #203
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WyldStallion should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridWyldStallion should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridWyldStallion should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Also I think sportscars was the form of auto racing most hurt when the tobacco sponsorship bans happened. Something that needs to be removed of course. And I am no tobacco user or smoker.
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Old 20 Jul 2021, 15:33 (Ref:4062384)   #204
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Maybe Jim France and NASCAR should put their money where their mouth is. We do remember that they did partially fund a lot of DP teams in the GA era to keep that series afloat and weren't too shy about it.


Then again, Don Panoz did that to an extend with the ALMS with his own teams for a long time, and he got tired of it. Maybe we're seeing that attempt to profit off of OEMs rearing it's head here, and since the current incarnation of IMSA began.
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Old 20 Jul 2021, 15:38 (Ref:4062386)   #205
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Maybe Jim France and NASCAR should put their money where their mouth is. We do remember that they did partially fund a lot of DP teams in the GA era to keep that series afloat and weren't too shy about it.
With what money? The majority of the funding for Action Express and others previously was their family project but that's been redirected to other ventures. And not sure money where their mouth is would be the right expression there any way. They aren't crying they need more money, they set a standard that it appears teams and partners are willing to go along with. If that's what makes the series go then great.

As for LMP2/3, they aren't OEM partnered cars so that's not applicable there. The LMDh and LMH cars ARE manufacturer partnered as part of the regs, thus OEM marketing contribution, as it's called, would be applicable.
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Old 20 Jul 2021, 16:14 (Ref:4062401)   #206
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And IMSA making sure we all know the shotgun is aimed squarely at their own foot still, first you disallow the Panoz GT4 and now likely Glickenhaus will be ineligible, and Dodge will have to make their LMH badges.

https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/d...r-eligibility/
I understand the need to have a minimum amount of cars produced so manufacturers don't create a one off special to go racing from. But that is not the era we are in! And why would this minimum number be so high, they have it set at 2500?? Does Ferrari sell 2500 cars a year in the US?


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Could be interesting to see if Mazda could offer up a couple cars. Although they do like to keep at least one for the collection. Think Dragonspeed could do justice to the Mazdas as privateer.

https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/d...022-dpi-entry/
IMSA needs as many cars as they can get for next year, they should be pressuring Mazda to let Dragonspeed race a Mazda! Really interesting to hear the comment about the Caddy motor though. None available? Is this going to be an issue for the current teams next season?
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Old 20 Jul 2021, 17:47 (Ref:4062414)   #207
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I understand the need to have a minimum amount of cars produced so manufacturers don't create a one off special to go racing from. But that is not the era we are in! And why would this minimum number be so high, they have it set at 2500?? Does Ferrari sell 2500 cars a year in the US?




IMSA needs as many cars as they can get for next year, they should be pressuring Mazda to let Dragonspeed race a Mazda! Really interesting to hear the comment about the Caddy motor though. None available? Is this going to be an issue for the current teams next season?
Ferrari sells about 4x that number, just in the US market. 2019 was 1013, 9200 in 2018. Was slightly down in 2020 at 9110.

But yes, we don't have homologation special cars anymore so the minimum number of V8 M3s or Z4s isn't material. And by that logic the Vette isn't legal as that engine isn't in the street car yet is it?

I think no extra motors is like Indy. There's only so many hours dedicated to DPi motors and they aren't interested in expanding. I'm guessing it would not be too hard but that's not their plan so guess I could be like Jim and build my own. But then I would get excluded from IMSA so that doesn't get me anywhere.
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Old 20 Jul 2021, 20:08 (Ref:4062444)   #208
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veeten should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridveeten should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Basically, the whole thing is to prevent "cherry picking" of certain races, and later running off back across the water refusing to race the entire calendar. IMSA is not going to engender such actions, as to why their rules are this way. Brand identification isn't such a bad thing, especially where major auto manufacturers are concerned. Gives the series the run stability they, as well as sponsors, insurer and the like, want to keep happy. Instead of a badge or a sticker, having front fascia that's similar to what the manufacturer produces and sells gives a connection that even the most unsophisticated of viewers can relate to. Examples abound in IMSA like the Cadillac, which uses the front similar to the entire line, even the SUV's. Same can be also be said of Acura, Mazda, and others in the DPi field. And, yet, didn't loose any performance, speed, or number of entrants, which couldn't be said of LMP1 in the latter stages. LMH was an attempt to bolster an already sagging and shrinking category, as LMP2 was out pacing them in number of entrants. Audi, Porsche and Toyota were beating them to death with hybrid entrants, it couldn't get any worse.
Since the late 60's, sponsorship has been the "life's blood" of many motorsports, especially Formula 1, when the folks that run it was told by Dunlop and Shell, "no more free stuff", gotta pay for it. Meanwhile, Americans were long used to that, and still had racing in many forms. One has to get used to that age-old saying that there is no free lunch.
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Old 23 Jul 2021, 16:37 (Ref:4062883)   #209
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https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/t...-with-lmh-car/

Imagine Toyota hypercar in IMSA, badged as Lexus with the yellow and black bee livery.
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Old 23 Jul 2021, 18:42 (Ref:4062896)   #210
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It will be Toyota in the factory livery as to not steal the Lexus GT spotlight and run by the Toyota factory guys. There's no way they'll do the full season, likely just the enduros. But as said before stranger things have happened.

Ferrari I could see in some enduros after year 1, but unless IMSA caves SCR is sadly screwed. Fan abuse, sorry that's communication, on Facebook may force their hand if Glickenhaus is excluded. It's not like allowing them would open the floodgates for other boutique builders, are there many actually making a GT3 car to impact GTD?
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Old 23 Jul 2021, 19:21 (Ref:4062902)   #211
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It really depends on how Toyota/Lexus USA views the marketing value vs. cost of GTD vs. GTD-Pro vs. prototypes. They're about to roll out a new GT3 car. But if in 2023 GTD Pro becomes a ghost town and GTD-Am is completely overshadowed by the prototype category (which it will), Toyota/Lexus may see value in joining the big show and offloading the GT3 cars to GTD-Am customers. And at that point, rather than starting to design a Lexus LMDh, it'll probably make more sense to just run the GR010 with a US-based team. And I doubt Toyota would want to just slap Lexus badges on the GR010.

As for Toyota's actual WEC team cherrypicking big IMSA races, I wouldn't expect any rebranding at all, even livery-wise. They'll probably want to do it in 2023, when Toyota in its 3rd year should have a reliability/experience edge over the debuting LMDh cars and the Ferrari.
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Ferrari I could see in some enduros after year 1
Didn't Ferrari say they debut the car at Daytona 2023?
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Old 23 Jul 2021, 19:43 (Ref:4062906)   #212
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It really depends on how Toyota/Lexus USA views the marketing value vs. cost of GTD vs. GTD-Pro vs. prototypes. They're about to roll out a new GT3 car. But if in 2023 GTD Pro becomes a ghost town and GTD-Am is completely overshadowed by the prototype category (which it will), Toyota/Lexus may see value in joining the big show and offloading the GT3 cars to GTD-Am customers. And at that point, rather than starting to design a Lexus LMDh, it'll probably make more sense to just run the GR010 with a US-based team. And I doubt Toyota would want to just slap Lexus badges on the GR010.

As for Toyota's actual WEC team cherrypicking big IMSA races, I wouldn't expect any rebranding at all, even livery-wise. They'll probably want to do it in 2023, when Toyota in its 3rd year should have a reliability/experience edge over the debuting LMDh cars and the Ferrari.

Didn't Ferrari say they debut the car at Daytona 2023?
Seems like they think they will in no way be ready for that now.

"“Honestly speaking, I think for us it’s impossible that we are ready for Daytona,” Coletta told Sportscar365. “Because the time is very little and our target will be to be ready at the end of November, the start of December [2022].

“It’s a miracle if we are ready for the first race of the WEC in March, but this is the real target.

“I think that Daytona should be an opportunity for 2024. It’s complicated for 2023."" S365 article above
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Old 29 Jul 2021, 23:48 (Ref:4063879)   #213
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Great interview from Marshall and Racer with John Doonan. Lots of information in there, but one of my favorite parts has to be that Marshall asked why the class is going to be called LMDh.

https://racer.com/2021/07/29/intervi...lmdh-and-more/
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Old 30 Jul 2021, 00:25 (Ref:4063885)   #214
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Great interview from Marshall and Racer with John Doonan. Lots of information in there, but one of my favorite parts has to be that Marshall asked why the class is going to be called LMDh.

https://racer.com/2021/07/29/intervi...lmdh-and-more/
Oh and forgot to mention that I also have questions about the logic of IMSA not wanting teams to just come over and do the big events like Daytona and Sebring and ignore the rest of the championship. I understand the need of the series to try and get as many full season entries as possible, but for events like the aforementioned it seems like having six or eight top-level cars wanting to come over and do them would only be a win for the series. Especially when in the same interview he mentions how important it is for their teams to be able to go over and just do Le Mans.
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Old 30 Jul 2021, 09:00 (Ref:4063935)   #215
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Oh and forgot to mention that I also have questions about the logic of IMSA not wanting teams to just come over and do the big events like Daytona and Sebring and ignore the rest of the championship. I understand the need of the series to try and get as many full season entries as possible, but for events like the aforementioned it seems like having six or eight top-level cars wanting to come over and do them would only be a win for the series. Especially when in the same interview he mentions how important it is for their teams to be able to go over and just do Le Mans.
IMSA, trying to have its cake and eat it? I have never heard of such a thing before!

To be fair, the business model make the most sense (money) with full season entrants, but I wouldn't be surprised if this attitude to entrants wasn't at least partly driven by a desire to try and make WC an equivalent series to WEC in the eyes of fans and factories.
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Old 30 Jul 2021, 16:38 (Ref:4064005)   #216
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Part of me, out of pure spite, wants ACO to just do a mirror response to this non-convergence. But really, logic dictates that the more IS the merrier and what IMSA is really doing is lobbying the commercial interests of individual players at the expense of the level (prestige, value etc.) of the series as a whole. IMSA chooses to keep its pond small so the overly self-conscious fish stay safe and happy. And I don't want ACO to do the same.
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Old 30 Jul 2021, 16:47 (Ref:4064007)   #217
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Oh and forgot to mention that I also have questions about the logic of IMSA not wanting teams to just come over and do the big events like Daytona and Sebring and ignore the rest of the championship. I understand the need of the series to try and get as many full season entries as possible, but for events like the aforementioned it seems like having six or eight top-level cars wanting to come over and do them would only be a win for the series. Especially when in the same interview he mentions how important it is for their teams to be able to go over and just do Le Mans.
I too get the why, but think it is the wrong approach.

We’ve always had this in Sportscar and I’m fine with it.

The way to approach this is to let the big events draw them in and make the lesser events just more attractive to enter. You did Daytona an Sebring, you know how it works, why not get people in you cars for these other events.

And if they don’t turn up fine. The local championship should be enough to encourage participants in each round.

I can also see why competitors might get a bit narked that they have less chance of winning the big ones, but it is also great to do well against all the big names in the big races surely. The peaks are higher, albeit less likely you will climb them.

And you have the rest of the championship to go at too.
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Old 30 Jul 2021, 17:25 (Ref:4064012)   #218
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Very recent history teaches us that one these approaches gives us ALMS and the other gives us... GrandAm *sad trombone*.

The fact that such a legendary event as 24 Hours of Daytona is having to recover its international status after the latter says it all.
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Old 31 Jul 2021, 12:17 (Ref:4064131)   #219
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Part of me, out of pure spite, wants ACO to just do a mirror response to this non-convergence. But really, logic dictates that the more IS the merrier and what IMSA is really doing is lobbying the commercial interests of individual players at the expense of the level (prestige, value etc.) of the series as a whole. IMSA chooses to keep its pond small so the overly self-conscious fish stay safe and happy. And I don't want ACO to do the same.
ACO ... Oreca, Ligier, Norma/Duqueine

Totally differently but also totally the same
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Old 4 Aug 2021, 18:28 (Ref:4065343)   #220
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Well push privateer cars, or at least multiples available, another year most likely. Audi, Porsche and Lamborghini all have dibs on Multimatic chassis now, although Lamborghini has to wait a year for their toys.

https://racer.com/2021/08/04/lamborg...-manufacturer/
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Old 4 Aug 2021, 19:28 (Ref:4065365)   #221
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So it seems that aside from engines and bodywork, the Multimatic chassis will basically be a VAG proprietary chassis. Which IMO is sort of doing LMH on the cheap (not building the whole car from scratch). At least this means that if there's a LMP2 customer version it should be a lot better than the car Riley was involved with.
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Old 4 Aug 2021, 20:03 (Ref:4065373)   #222
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Well push privateer cars, or at least multiples available, another year most likely. Audi, Porsche and Lamborghini all have dibs on Multimatic chassis now, although Lamborghini has to wait a year for their toys.

https://racer.com/2021/08/04/lamborg...-manufacturer/
Will the Lambo use the same engine as Porsche and Audi? Didn't see that in the article, but seems most likely.

I'm interested to see how different the bodywork will be between the 3 makes. If they all look different (and good) then I think the engine similarities can be overlooked...... by some of us.
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Old 4 Aug 2021, 20:46 (Ref:4065379)   #223
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Will the Lambo use the same engine as Porsche and Audi? Didn't see that in the article, but seems most likely.

I'm interested to see how different the bodywork will be between the 3 makes. If they all look different (and good) then I think the engine similarities can be overlooked...... by some of us.
Thats for sure a good looking car always overcomes many of the other flaws for me. Especially for prototypes. Hope these LMDH cars have a lot of wiggle room to customize the body style. The Corvette DP really set the standard there.
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Old 4 Aug 2021, 20:49 (Ref:4065380)   #224
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then I think the engine similarities can be overlooked...... by some of us.
Key words those........
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Old 4 Aug 2021, 22:22 (Ref:4065390)   #225
canaglia
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canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by joeb View Post
Will the Lambo use the same engine as Porsche and Audi? Didn't see that in the article, but seems most likely.

I'm interested to see how different the bodywork will be between the 3 makes. If they all look different (and good) then I think the engine similarities can be overlooked...... by some of us.

I honestly don't expect big changes about bodyworks, maybe something like lights design details or a different shape of nose... but actually I mean more some kind of vanity panel than a real aero part like the panel over the nose of acura dpi.
For sure the engine will be the same for the 3 cars, afterall looking back to about 20 years ago, bentley speed8 shared same engine of R8 (2003 bently had an enlarged version tho)
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