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19 Mar 2005, 08:42 (Ref:1255809) | #26 | ||
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well they have ruined the Long beach track totally so I'd like neither series to go there , its just ridiculus what they have done there over the past 4 or 5 years and even though I cant wait for April 10 in one way Im not looking forward to it because it IS Long beach.
BUT if there was a choice I'd prefer the Champcars to stay there because they have a greater history there and with tradition being thrown out the window (in both series) they need to hold onto something from the past |
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In Loving memory of Peter Brock I hate it when im driving in a straight line & Seb Vettel runs into me GO THE MIGHTY HAWKS !!!! |
19 Mar 2005, 09:25 (Ref:1255839) | #27 | ||
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I will never sign the IRL up to any race venue even if my life depended on it.
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19 Mar 2005, 10:43 (Ref:1255888) | #28 | ||
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Even if Tony George had just cut your hand off with a lightsabre, proclaiming "We could rule the open-wheel market like father and son" with your only option being to jump off the mining city into the endless space of bankrupcy?
[/Starwars Analogy] ...Do I smell a Tony? edit: Hey, what a great unintentional pun! Last edited by Hazza; 19 Mar 2005 at 10:45. |
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19 Mar 2005, 12:14 (Ref:1255944) | #29 | ||
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19 Mar 2005, 12:21 (Ref:1255949) | #30 | |||
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But the current Monaco layout, is not the best there has been, but because of history, and it's a great event, it's still a great race. Which is Long beach. Roll on the...... Last edited by luke; 19 Mar 2005 at 12:27. |
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19 Mar 2005, 12:25 (Ref:1255954) | #31 | |
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Not to mention Monaco has nicer surroundings and more variation (in the "elevation changes" department in particular). |
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19 Mar 2005, 13:10 (Ref:1255972) | #32 | ||
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Fair points rustyfan, from a pure racing perspective Monaco is possibly the best street circuit in the world, although the way they've mvoed some of the barriers back in the last couple of years does annoy me, as it makes it easier than it was - the track which should be the ltiamte test of driver rather than car.
The facts electrocuted posted are interesting. Looking a US attendances, the IRL has generally been a lot more successful even when you ignore Indy (which will probably always be the biggest US OW race, no matter which series it's part of; a fact CART wrongly ignored), and its 2004 Milwaukee race got 50% more attendees than ChampCars did in either 2003 or 2004. I'm not sure whether you'd expect the IRL to get more at St Pete's than ChampCars did in 2003 - it's not a brand new race, and any momentum from the first race will've been lost by the lack of a 2004 visit, and there's excitement but also real doubt over the potential quality of IRL street races, but there will be more big names out there than 2 years ago. The 2006 attendance would perhaps be the acid test, as to how many first-timers enjoy it and return. |
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19 Mar 2005, 14:05 (Ref:1255989) | #33 | |||
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And as this year the Champ Car race, is a day race, I would expect both would have a similar attendance, when compared, imo. Last edited by luke; 19 Mar 2005 at 14:06. |
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19 Mar 2005, 14:16 (Ref:1255996) | #34 | ||
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As to answer the question of the title, of the thread........If you were Long Beach why would you sign on with CCWS next year! Can we look at the positives, as to why it should still be a Champ Car race.
Instead of the negatives most of the time. |
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19 Mar 2005, 14:54 (Ref:1256016) | #35 | |
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Times change. People change. Situations change. Electrocuted makes a lot of sense in his post. If you have 25,000 at Cleveland and it looks packed, and 40,000 at Phoenix, and it looks empty because they seat 80,000 at Phoenix, which had the larger attendance?
There are comparisons to make in regard to changing series at popular venues. Long Beach made a change when it went with CART instead of F-1 because it couldn't afford F-1 any more. There wasn't much change in attendance when that happened. And Long Beach has been in the delicate position of being "first up" during the past few years. Phoenix has been at the forefront of change twice. In 1979, Phoenix dumped USAC for CART. In '96, Phoenix dumped CART for IRL. In both cases, Phoenix was "first up" to make the switches. In both cases, attendance dropped slightly for a year or two but regained it quickly. Long Beach has actually been losing attendance over the past few years. There are going to be a lot of factors in any decision Long Beach makes other than how many hardcore CCWS fans go there and would refuse to go if IRL is chosen as the headliner. |
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19 Mar 2005, 16:13 (Ref:1256066) | #36 | |||
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What can the IRL bring that Champcar can't? Underpowered, over downforced racing machines and money hungry team owners....that's about it. I agree that this years race and the statements about it will be interesting to see this year. I think as soon as the series related stuff is out of the way and the trucks are on the road to LB, The Three Amigos should turn their attention to sewing up the Long Beach contract for a good long while (though perhaps leave PG at home eh.... ) Although this could be yet another case of a track dropping the name IRL in an attempt to get a better deal......that's just so easy to do to apply pressure on Champcar these days |
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19 Mar 2005, 16:41 (Ref:1256089) | #37 | |||
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... but some people are prefering bashing and crying |
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19 Mar 2005, 16:56 (Ref:1256095) | #38 | |||
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We really don't know what the IRL would bring to Long Beach. A more secure contract, perhaps. As for the racing, let's see if the IRL has a good race at St. Pete's before drawing any conclusions. |
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19 Mar 2005, 18:25 (Ref:1256164) | #39 | ||
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Thinking back to the late 90's and remembering how bloody damn awesome Champ Car was makes it impossible for me to ignore the very obvious problems that exists with Champ Car today (and US open-wheel racing in general, for that matter). That, however, is something to be discussed in another (beaten-to-death-already) thread altogether |
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19 Mar 2005, 20:08 (Ref:1256217) | #40 | |
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Another champcar bashing thread! Absolutely amazing....
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19 Mar 2005, 22:31 (Ref:1256339) | #41 | |
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It's not Champ-Car bashing.
It's absolute bloody frustration at what American single-seater racing has become - when there was once one great series... |
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19 Mar 2005, 23:18 (Ref:1256371) | #42 | |||
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X amount of good news vs Y amount of bad news...... X amount of talk discussing racing vs Y amount of talk discuss the series finances and attendance (And aren't the threads when people post seat counts at IRL races VS Seat counts at Champcar races always fun!.....oops! ) X amount of honest opinions Vs y amounts of spin, either good or bad.... Too much of any of these and it turns into a party political broadcast rather than a forum,.... I just want to discuss some racing! Not the 32nd anniversary "IRL to Long Beach/Canada/Mexico/The moon/anywhere else we hold dear thread! Stupid off season!! But then, as we will soon discover, things always look worse in the off-season.... |
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19 Mar 2005, 23:31 (Ref:1256377) | #43 | ||
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So do I, and if Champ Car wouldn't have been so extremely late with the driver lineup, the fully confirmed schedule and the season start, we would be discussing the racing and current happenings - not sit around and discuss those three issues for the less-than-positive things they are. Still, the last couple of days, with Walker's announcement in particular, have been a bit more positive. Hopefully it's a sign of more good things to come. |
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20 Mar 2005, 17:54 (Ref:1257139) | #44 | |||||
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In 2003 when Fontana was canceled, I believe there was a chance that Phoenix, could take over the race, for that year, due to the fires. (as I think both tracks, are owned by the same company.) Last edited by luke; 20 Mar 2005 at 17:56. |
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20 Mar 2005, 19:19 (Ref:1257219) | #45 | ||
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Would a twIRL car even fit on the Long Beach course? It would be similar to racing diesel trucks down Shoreline Drive.
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20 Mar 2005, 19:36 (Ref:1257236) | #46 | ||
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I know where I would put an IRL car.... I'm sure it would fit,,, size does matter.
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20 Mar 2005, 19:44 (Ref:1257251) | #47 | ||
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As for CC, i guess the tradition is a benefit. Also they have cars made for road/streetcourses, which could result in better races compared to IRL. The fact that the race is on NBC could be a benefit as well (results in a higher event sponsorship). Imo it will come down to which series the people of LB have the most faith in, in terms of long term stability and potential of (some level of) succes. If i had to make the decision at this moment, the IRL seems to be the better choice, but things can change rapidly. |
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20 Mar 2005, 21:23 (Ref:1257389) | #48 | ||
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As anyone can observe,,, to keep it,, OWRS has to have a GREAT weekend, a great crowd over last years 70,000 race day, every support race has to have full fields putting on one heck of a show. The OWRS race has to be one of the best in years,, which I'm sure it will be since it's back to race and pit anyway you want from green to checker. And the new crew that replaced everyone layed off last Christmas,, must do their jobs well. Not an easy task since this is the first race.... And,,,, throughout the year OWRS teams must get sponsorship from larger corporations that will spend money at LB. I hope/think Dover will wait until later in the season to decide what to do next year,,, gives OWRS time to get their ducks in a row. |
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21 Mar 2005, 01:18 (Ref:1257603) | #49 | ||
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Give them good ol' boys the chrome horn PT! |
21 Mar 2005, 18:02 (Ref:1258157) | #50 | |||
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Other CC race day attendance: Monterrey was 92,713 Mexico city was 212k Surfer's was 107,321 Vancouver and Montreal they were in the 60Ks on race day, but TO is in Canada too. Denver - I'm going by memory, but I believe was ~40k race day but they did announced a 112k weekend. Vegas was a write-off. I think there were suppose to be about 15k at the end, but recall the Busch race before hand. Maybe 10k showed up for CC? I didn't realize that Laguna was so poor, that's just nuts!! Are you sure that's right? RA has also been omitted, but I'm sure it was a poor number. Last edited by Snrub; 21 Mar 2005 at 18:05. |
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