The Alonso blocking/penalty thread (AKA The rage is on !) [MERGED]

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by Patrick Fletche

It led to zero manufacturers points.
Which is why McMerc were not celebrating his (hollow) victory.
It will now take a lot to prevent the donkeys getting the manufacturers, they have the best package, in Kimi, and a succession of circuits that suit their car.
LH has thrown away all the work of 900 people in Woking. No wonder they are so unhappy with him.

That's a bit like blaming the Treaty of Versailles for Hitler. There were lots of intervening factors that had more of an effect and no-one could foresee such a problem at the time.

Originally Posted by Patrick Fletche

And all the Hamilton fanboys are slagging him off as if he had killed Princess Di. It is just ridiculous.

/me emails Daily Express

[E46]

Originally Posted by Gaz

Why is Lewis a "spoiled brat"? Because he offered a few expletives to Ron in the heat of the moment? Come on lads I'm starting to believe some of you live very sheltered lives! If an hour after the race Lewis had been f-ing at Ron I'd agree but in the heat of the moment I can completely understand his reaction for which he's apologised for. Lewis is a human being, Alonso is a paranoid cheat!

"Hamiltonmania" at work.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Um,

My point was that Lewis was wrong (first wrong) and Alonso compounded the whole thing (the second wrong).

The "first wrong" was a 'team' issue and should have been dealt with by the 'team'.The "second wrong" was a 'sporting' issue and was dealt with by the stewards as per the appropriate regulation.

Originally Posted by Peter Mallet

(Which thread are we in BTW?).

The 'Alonso blocking/Hamilton partly guilty/FIA complete NUMPTIES/Grossly enraged thread'.

On the brightside: No one has posted in the 'Stepney/Coughlan/Espionage/Complete balls up thread' for some time now.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by sparkione

. . .
It's all good stuff, though. I wonder how many times Ron has been told to 'swivel' by one of his drivers --a protege and number two to boot? Sets the tone for contract/retainer negotiations for '09, I'd have thought.

I'd be very surprised if those words at that time caused Ron much grievance. Nothing that a chat and an apology would not sort out. Drivers are not cool level headed Milquetoasts. (Can I use that reference now that it has been explained to Peter?) They may be able to counterfeit that appearance for PR and press conferences but underneath they are A type personalities who want to win - at whatever cost.

I can think of drivers past and present who would have started the discussion with a smack.

Regards

Jim

[Kempi]

Overall, good to see that not only in Germany we have "fans" that are a little blind-eyed when it comes to their favorite drivers...especially when they have only followed the sport from just about the first piece of success mentioned in the news and then claim to know everything. Good thing that in Germany those folks are leaving the scene now.

Let's not forget that young Lewis started it all by steadfastly refusing to adhere to the agreement

Isn't this another deja vu for Ron? The whole Senna/Prost stuff started with arguments over an agreement "whoever is first in T1 wins". Now we have another agreement that was not followed and another two drivers who can win any day. Oh jolly, and other than Senna and Prost, they have a good ten years to go in their careers.

[MrTTraces]

Slightly off topic but I'm liking the phrase 'McBrats'.

It's as if Mclaren have lauched there own range of burgers

[davyboy]

There have been several posts here saying that it was wrong for the FIA to get involved in what happened on Saturday because the issue was confined to the McLaren team. That's not correct. It was pretty clear from TV that Alonso deliberately impeded Hamilton from getting to his box. The radio communication apparently backed that up. Such action on Alonso's part should not go unpunished and is no different to Alonso stopping in the pitlane and impeding a driver from another team from getting to his box. The FIA can and should investigate matters between drivers irrespective of what team they drive for.

Where the confusion for me seems to come in is why McLaren team have also been punished. I can't see how McLaren and Alonso can be at fault for what happened on Saturday. Either they instructed him to impede Hamilton [in which case they're at fault], or he decided to do it of his on volition [in which case he's at fault].

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

The "first wrong" was a 'team' issue and should have been dealt with by the 'team'.The "second wrong" was a 'sporting' issue and was dealt with by the stewards as per the appropriate regulation.

I said that.

Originally Posted by martyn bott

The 'Alonso blocking/Hamilton partly guilty/FIA complete NUMPTIES/Grossly enraged thread'.

Only because I moved the posts from the Hungarian boreathon OUTRAGE thread.

Originally Posted by martyn bott

On the brightside: No one has posted in the 'Stepney/Coughlan/Espionage/Complete balls up thread' for some time now.

I can rectify that if you want.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I can rectify that if you want.

Too late mate.

[Airhead]

Originally Posted by davyboy

There have been several posts here saying that it was wrong for the FIA to get involved in what happened on Saturday because the issue was confined to the McLaren team. That's not correct. It was pretty clear from TV that Alonso deliberately impeded Hamilton from getting to his box. The radio communication apparently backed that up. Such action on Alonso's part should not go unpunished and is no different to Alonso stopping in the pitlane and impeding a driver from another team from getting to his box. The FIA can and should investigate matters between drivers irrespective of what team they drive for.

Where the confusion for me seems to come in is why McLaren team have also been punished. I can't see how McLaren and Alonso can be at fault for what happened on Saturday. Either they instructed him to impede Hamilton [in which case they're at fault], or he decided to do it of his on volition [in which case he's at fault].

It is a matter of placing the pain where it hurts most - constructor's points - so that the team sits down and reigns the two boys in.

The counter argument would be that the more exposure that McLaren get for any reason is a good thing financially for the team.

I honestly don't know which one wins out...

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

Too late mate.

I saw.

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by davyboy

There have been several posts here saying that it was wrong for the FIA to get involved in what happened on Saturday because the issue was confined to the McLaren team. That's not correct. It was pretty clear from TV that Alonso deliberately impeded Hamilton from getting to his box. The radio communication apparently backed that up. Such action on Alonso's part should not go unpunished and is no different to Alonso stopping in the pitlane and impeding a driver from another team from getting to his box. The FIA can and should investigate matters between drivers irrespective of what team they drive for.

But the only driver he impeded was Hamilton. Why put him 6th?

2nd would have been better as we would be given the opportunity of a first corner dustup.

Personally I feel Hamilton needs taking to one side and given the "we are a team and do as you are told" talk and Alonso needs to put away the TGF book of deliberate mishaps!

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by AMoffat

It is a matter of placing the pain where it hurts most - constructor's points - so that the team sits down and reigns the two boys in.

The counter argument would be that the more exposure that McLaren get for any reason is a good thing financially for the team.

I honestly don't know which one wins out...

I agree withyou there, mate

Looks like Mclaren is stealing the show this season, no matter what, no matter how !

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Alan Raine

But the only driver he impeded was Hamilton. Why put him 6th?

So he can't impede him again.

Originally Posted by Alan Raine

2nd would have been better as we would be given the opportunity of a first corner dustup.

See above.

Originally Posted by Alan Raine

Personally I feel Hamilton needs taking to one side and given the "we are a team and do as you are told" talk and Alonso needs to put away the TGF book of deliberate mishaps!

Agreed.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Looks like Mclaren is stealing the show this season, no matter what, no matter how !

As long as they remain in the show that is.

[flying finn]

McLaren stuffed up the pitstops but Alonso stayed in the pit box after the lollypop was raised to (allegedly) query whether the correct tyres had been fitted.

Give the team the benefit of doubt and hopefully the FIA International Court of Appeal sees it that way. But if someone had to be punished then Alonso's 5 places grid penalty seemed appropriate (and now irreversible).

Also it is these kinds of pedantic, random rulings by the stewards that bring the whole sport into disrepute far more than what McLaren did to themsleves. Next they will be penalising Raikkonen on the grid for being drunk in a nightclub and for being 'prejudicial to the interests of motor sports generally'.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by flying finn

Next they will be penalising Raikkonen on the grid for being drunk in a nightclub and for being 'prejudicial to the interests of motor sports generally'.

Quite right too, when does the WMSC meet on this?

However that is for another thread.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by flying finn

McLaren stuffed up the pitstops but Alonso stayed in the pit box after the lollypop was raised to (allegedly) query whether the correct tyres had been fitted.

The lollpop was raised and perhaps the tyre query was all part of the game.Maybe if he'd gone out on the other tyres he wouldn't have got pole and.....................

Originally Posted by flying finn

Also it is these kinds of pedantic, random rulings by the stewards that bring the whole sport into disrepute far more than what McLaren did to themsleves. Next they will be penalising Raikkonen on the grid for being drunk in a nightclub and for being 'prejudicial to the interests of motor sports generally'.

Not pedantic or random.Certainly,Ron knew straight away that it was going to be investigated.

[cptkablamo]

Maybe if he went immediately the first time he would have had damaged suspension because of the tyre warmer...

...and I have to agree - the FIA has always bought the sport into more disrepute that a team ever has...

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by AMoffat

It is a matter of placing the pain where it hurts most - constructor's points - so that the team sits down and reigns the two boys in.

The team can't be responsible for the actions of its drivers on track or in the pits. Punishing a team in the expectation that it must reign its drivers in is bizarre. What exactly did McLaren, the team, do wrong on Saturday. I'm serious, I cannot see why Alonso and the team were punished. One or the other was responsible for the incident, not both.

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by davyboy

The team can't be responsible for the actions of its drivers on track or in the pits. Punishing a team in the expectation that it must reign its drivers in is bizarre. What exactly did McLaren, the team, do wrong on Saturday. I'm serious, I cannot see why Alonso and the team were punished. One or the other was responsible for the incident, not both.

Which is what I keep saying - As I see it, Alonso was penalised for overstaying (the 10 seconds after the lollipop was lifted. BUT the team was penalised for managing their pits stops - which is bonkers!

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Piglet

Which is what I keep saying - As I see it, Alonso was penalised for overstaying (the 10 seconds after the lollipop was lifted. BUT the team was penalised for managing their pits stops - which is bonkers!

It is completely bonkers alright. I'm glad that I'm not the only one who sees the craziness in this.

[Peter Mallett]

I think everyone sees the craziness in it and that is why I suggested that the Stewards and the FIA are under pressure to demonstrate a hard position with Macaroon because of all the tripe spouted after the WMSC meeting.

That does not mean I'm blaming Ferrari for the events.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by Patrick Fletche

It led to zero manufacturers points.
Which is why McMerc were not celebrating his (hollow) victory.
It will now take a lot to prevent the donkeys getting the manufacturers, they have the best package, in Kimi, and a succession of circuits that suit their car.
LH has thrown away all the work of 900 people in Woking. No wonder they are so unhappy with him.

So, a win and a fourth place is throwing it all away???? You obviously have a different defn than I do...In 5 years time, it will be the driver who is remembered for winning the MDC, not the constructor.

Originally Posted by Patrick Fletche

The current crop of F1 drivers is probably the best ever as a group. Very few drivers that shouldn't be there. So I am sure that virtually all of them would get podiums in the McMerc or the donkey. The car is so much more important than the driver. I have never seen LH make a bad car go better than it deserves to yet I have seen both Kimi and Jenson do this. So I rate them more highly as drivers.

Well, he' s only been doing it a few months. Best to wait until he's had the same amount of starts as those two before rating I would think.

Originally Posted by Patrick Fletche

As has been pointed out on here LH has called backmarkers monkeys, has disobeyed team orders, has used the F word to Ron Dennis, has cost the team manufacturers points and probably the championship and has cost his team mate points. Yet all the Hamilton fanboys can do is make excuses. Like you just have. He is supposed to be a professional racing driver working as part of a team. He should learn to behave like one.

Yes, he should. And I fully expect that he will in time, but as stated before, he's 22, youngand has plenty of time to learn. Not an excuse btw, it's a reason.

Originally Posted by Patrick Fletche

However Alonso has his whole weekend's race strategy ruined by LH disobeying Ron's orders so he gets his own back by delaying LH for a few seconds. I don't blame him. And all the Hamilton fanboys are slagging him off as if he had killed Princess Di. It is just ridiculous.

Well,, I haven't slagged off Alonso. I don't think he should have got the penalty, but there again, he was the one (allegedly) who deliberately stayed in the box to slow LH. He didn't need to do that, it was a decision made by him, which turned out to backfire on him and the team. Yes, you can argue he was provoked by LH's disobedience, but he still didnt need to do it, and it cost him points.

It's just a couple of hyped up racing drivers (and race driving does hype you up beyond anything else I have ever experienced) who made a couple of duff decisions. Its a shame RD has to take all the flack and cool everything down.

[Born Racer]

Patrick, maybe you should leave your personal vendetta against him out of this and focus more on the matter in hand. The "monkeys at the back" comment has nothing to do with this matter, and was just a joke anyway!