The Alonso blocking/penalty thread (AKA The rage is on !) [MERGED]

[Teretonga]

Interesting article Martyn, and if true then even more evidence why the stewards should have left the b***** thing alone and not intervened in the way they did.

As for penalising the team, this makes it even more of a joke...

As far as Ron's capacity for being a control freak....

What does the intervention of the Stewards, Mosley, and the FIA intervention in incidents like Monaco, USGP, Turkey last year, the spying incident, rule changes and the Hungoring 'pitgate' incident make them?

The incapacity of the authorities who try to micro manage the sport is bringing the sport into direpute as a sporting contest.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

The incapacity of the authorities who try to micro manage the sport is bringing the sport into direpute as a sporting contest.

Ah yer see! You've used that word again....."sporting".....which is definitely not what Alonso was,even according to the above article.Which is why the FIA are there to do what they do.What we should realise is that the FIA are not the World Wrestling Federation.F1 is not a 'no holds barred' sport.Alonso was penalised for obstructing another driver (which team he's in doesn't matter) and one that is in front of him in the WDC standings!

[Teretonga]

I can understand and accept the penalty on Alonso, even if it is not what I would have done had I been a steward, but the team one is a nonsense....

definitely not 'sporting'.....

[Gt_R]

I think FIA's handling of the Alonso's penalty is a fair one, especially as many put the fault down on Alonso as acting in a petty manner.

Regarding FIA's handling of the team issue, then it is more debatable. The first fault i will find with FIA is that they did not make it clear the reason, and hence, without a good reason made public to justify the penalty, it is hard for us to accept such a penalty. But that said, perhaps FIA had reviewed the radio messages, and decided that the team is worth punishing, just not telling us the reason.

That you're willing to go to much extent to exclude Mclaren and Alonso from any sort of punishment, however, makes me wonder the exact definition of "sporting" in your opinion?

[JohnSSC]

Funny how folks can read that and interpret one driver's behaviour as "cricket" and the other's as "not sporting."

Anyway, I agree that the penalty was ridiculous, but keep in mind here that the article was written well after the fact. There is context within the article that may not have been given to the FIA. Certainly Lewis and Alonso would not have been emphasizing the psycho-drama they are engaged in.

Refreshing to see that Lewis is indeed human and more than willing to manipulate his environment in such a way as to gain an advantage. And shame on Alonso for being willing to manipulate his environment in such a way as to gain an advantage.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

I can understand and accept the penalty on Alonso, even if it is not what I would have done had I been a steward, but the team one is a nonsense....

definitely not 'sporting'.....

The stewards have to look at the incident in much the same way as they dealt with the Schumacher/Monaco one (Alonso didn't have any qualms about TGF going to the back of the grid).So it has to be dealt with in much the same way.

As for the 'team' penalty,well,Alonso is part of the team who could have dealt with the situation in a much better way than he/they did.It didn't look good on TV either (or in the papers,magazines,web sites etc).

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

And shame on Alonso for being willing to manipulate his environment in such a way as to gain an advantage.

But you can't manipulate the rules that govern that environment.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

As for the 'team' penalty,well,Alonso is part of the team who could have dealt with the situation in a much better way than he/they did.It didn't look good on TV either (or in the papers,magazines,web sites etc).

It still doesn't condone the team penalty. Nothing I've heard, read or seen since the incident has given any further insight into why the team were penalized.

[Knowlesy]

Are you from the nanny state martyn? Didn't look good on TV?

So what, it doesn't condone the loss of McLaren's points. I think that actually looks far worse as it is terrribly....convenient, let's say.

[Peter Mallett]

Alonso forgot the first rule of motorsport. Don't get mad get even. He reacted to Hamilton's lack of team work and in the end he lost out. He was unsporting and got caught. Still don't know why the team was punished but I did suggest that the "other issues" may be clouding judgement.

As an aside I know one of the stewards pretty well and he's a level headed guy so I'm sure he had to consider a lot of angles before coming to his conclusion.

And no, I'd never ask him about these things.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Are you from the nanny state martyn? Didn't look good on TV?

OK,so it did 'look' good on TV,but it's not really what McLaren would have wanted to see,if you see what I mean.

[Knowlesy]

Absolutely not, of course.

This does not really justify the loss of constructors points though, a hideous and cack handed penalty if ever there was one. To be honest, it's something I would almost expect to be overturned after the appeal. Provided the FIA have a shred of sanity, which I have to say I am starting to doubt with each passing day!

[gachjoel]

Looks like we`re going to have to wait till the appeal is in the open and then we can get the full facts of the stewards reasons for the penalty

[JohnSSC]

Hmmm. I think you needed to take my whole paragraph there Martyn. No offense, but just as quoting only the first sentence would be unfair, quoting the second as a stand-alone is as well.

Based on the linked article, it would seem that each was "unsporting" and that was the point I was making - sarcasm does not come across so well at times. Peter, you call what Hamilton did a "lack of team work." When Alonso gets even with that, you call it unsporting.

If both drivers have agreed to the strategy laid out by the Team, does that not make the failure of both drivers to abide by that an unsporting act on both their parts?

I do tend to agree that a page could be taken out of American racing here and each driver should have their own pit crew and their own pit box. Then can come and go as they please.

There is an economic benefit as well. With as many folks as are allowed over the wall, unemployment could be a thing of the past if you added enough people to service two cars at the same time.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Based on the linked article, it would seem that each was "unsporting" and that was the point I was making - sarcasm does not come across so well at times. Peter, you call what Hamilton did a "lack of team work." When Alonso gets even with that, you call it unsporting.

If both drivers have agreed to the strategy laid out by the Team, does that not make the failure of both drivers to abide by that an unsporting act on both their parts?

Hamilton and Alonso were both 'unsporting', but there is one crucial difference. Alonso broke the rules and Hamilton didn't.

It is not against the rules to ignore team orders / strategy. However, it is against the rules to deliberately impede an opponent in the pitlane.

[gachjoel]

But the team should take the initial blame for the events that had happened.
Why did they let Lewis out of the garage before Alonso.
If they held Lewis back,then there wouldn`t have been a problem.
But cant wait to find out the stewards reasoning.
i just hope it gets overturned

[JohnSSC]

Agree, Super Hans, it is just that (imho) Lewis keeps getting a free pass on the "behaviour" issue...

Personally, I have no idea why the FIA got their shorts in such a bunch over this in the first place...

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

I do tend to agree that a page could be taken out of American racing here and each driver should have their own pit crew and their own pit box. Then can come and go as they please.

Absolutely agree 100% with you there.

Not sure if that is possible at all the tracks though.What I would like to see is the drivers actually having to reverse unaided into the garage in order to get their fuel and tyres.That'd be worth watching on its own.

[Knowlesy]

I think I suggested seperate pitboxes after the McLaren queueing in Oz 2006 and got laughed out of the forum!

For me, this should be done if possible. I suppose there is a question of whether it is possible to implement in some of the pitlanes.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I think I suggested seperate pitboxes after the McLaren queueing in Oz 2006 and got laughed out of the forum!

There is of course the option of no pit stops.Which also gets its fair share of derision I might add.

Not sure how "no pit stops" would work in qualifying however.....hmmmm

[Knowlesy]

Yes, removing fuel stops would reduce this problem to zero.

However, let's not go there!

[Marbot]

There is,of course,the other option of 'service stations'.These would be placed around the track at varying intervals,some would provide fuel,others tyres.The driver would have to stop and refill his car (via the usual road car filler) when his fuel guage reads zero.Or stop and have his tyres changed by 'kwik fit' personel.This would also provide a sprinkling of 'real world' entertainment.

P.S. None of the above post should be taken (too) seriously.

Although,I suppose two drivers fighting over the same parking space also has that element of 'real world' about it.

[Bononi]

Nice idea Martyn, I hope someone who has the power can change to the way you suggested...

[pottiella]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Yes, removing fuel stops would reduce this problem to zero.

However, let's not go there!

it's not the only thing removing fuel stops would reduce to zero...I guess we would have a lot more sunday afternoons free during the year though!

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Agree, Super Hans, it is just that (imho) Lewis keeps getting a free pass on the "behaviour" issue...

Yes, I agree.

Neither driver can come out of this smelling of roses.