[LM24] Group C at Le Mans 2004

[rdjones]

Ok if you click on the house you will be able to find pictures from the Group C race from Saturday. I have also this afternoon watched the race on Eurosport and those things still look part.........

[Marcel ten Caat]

Any news from Le Mans about the Zandvoort race later this year?

[aries-project]

Zandvoort race has been cancelled, seems likely to be Dijon instead.

[Aysedasi]

It was terrific seeing the Group Cs out again - my favourite era. I just wished one or two of them had been pedalled just a tad harder - or am I being unkind?

[vandijk]

Originally posted by aries-project
Zandvoort race has been cancelled, seems likely to be Dijon instead.

Oh no! -- Lety me guess: the cars make too much noise...

[The Badger]

Originally posted by Aysedasi
It was terrific seeing the Group Cs out again - my favourite era. I just wished one or two of them had been pedalled just a tad harder - or am I being unkind?

Not unkind Aysi , honest is the word ..... I was so looking forward to these cars too . I dont want to see them again cuz they dont remind me of what they were like in their hayday !!!

I realise that these cars are expensive but you should still race your historic car or ..... leave it in a museum . The Lancia's were pathetic imho . I saw it race in 86 at Brands and these were a sad reminder of what I remember .

Am I being too critical ?

[24_heures]

You're right vandijk. The entire meeting has been cancelled. Looked like it would have been a cracker with most of the major historic groups involved.

[24_heures]

There's a major disparity in driver ability in the Group C field. I would rather I saw the cars being used, even if not to a fraction of their performance, than have them locked away in a museum for no-one to enjoy. But, it would be nice to have a few more really going for it.

Even so, the cars are stunning when they're standing still in the paddock. The reliability also left a little to be desired, but at least they were there.

[FG1]

Originally posted by The Badger
Am I being too critical ?

I had a couple of people associated with one of the Group C teams staying with me during the race, and having had some discussion with them can make a couple of points.

Some of these cars are worth a serious amount of money, £250K - £500K is not out of the question. They have to take care of the historic vehicle and their investment. Nobody is going to be happy to write that sort of money off, least of all those of us that enjoyed watching them.

The logistical expense it getting the cars to the circuit and the cost of mechanics did not make this a cheap event to take part in. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the engines, which are getting on bit and fragile, were de-tuned slightly. I wouldn't take any particular pleasure from seeing a historic engine blown to bits. In fact a piston met a value in one car during practice, I forget which one.

There was some real racing going on, the battle for what became second place was great to watch, I'm glad it didn't end in tears which it could easily have done. I would have liked to have heard the discussion between the drivers and owners when they got back to the pits!

Many of the drivers were owners, I talked to one before the race and he was concerned about his setup for the race, saying that the car was skittish, but the recommended springs couldn't be got to the car in time. I thing he wanted a softer setting for the public roads sections. A gentleman driver, with a car capable of over 200mph on the Mulsanne, without the ideal setting, surely can't be blamed for being a bit cautious.

I think it comes down to what you expect to see from an event like this. Even if the cars are not driven by the fastest drivers, even if they are protecting delicate and ageing machinery, even if they don't have every resource available to them to get the best out of the car for a given circuit, I would far rather see these cars on the track than in a museum.

FG

[marcush.]

there are lots of aspects to consider...the owners spending lots of money to buy a piece of history and spending lots of money to show/display the cars at that event,but often not accepting that is is damn expensive to actually run these cars.
As they were the pinnnacle of their day and the equipment is not new,having endured some big races,as well as having been stored away for long time wich is never a good idea,you should not be surprised that even the best drivers are a bit apprehensive when you go out on a track like LeMans.You just want to make sure you survive....
Looking at these cars ,they would all need a thorough groundup rebuild
wich must cost a fortune to actually race them to the max and I doubt anyone who has invested in such a piece of history would spend that sort of money .So we will see these cars cruising around and will have to believe :hey these are the last laps in a LeMans race and they just make sure they bring her home in one piece...knowing what these cars were capable of at the beginning of their race...

[Adam43]

These people buy these cars and race them, to whatever their ability or desire. It is easy for us that don't spend the money on them to consider that they should be treated and used in a particular way. The other factor to consider is that the cars are out their (probably) primerily for the owners/teams/drivers pleasure. The fans pleasure is also a factor, but until part of our gate money goes towards the running of these cars then how they are driven is not really an issue for us.

I loved the race, it was great to see them out there. I'd have loved it to be much longer, some of the cars to be driven harder and for there to be many more of them! When I win the lottery I'll contribute towards that!

I would like to thank everyone who got those cars out there and I hope they all enjoyed themselves.

[Karl Kling]

I must admit that i was a bit disapointed. Obviously i wasn't into Group C racing in the 80s due to my age but from what everyone has said about the cars being so fantastic my expectations was high. I know they are expensive and historic cars but they were slow and sounded a bit dull. There, i've said it...

[Pilgrimage]

It was magic to see them again - if you were expecting a repeat of the 88, 89, 90 etc Le Mans race then you set your expectations far too high. Fact is, those days were brilliant, part of my childhood and simply seeing the cars, let alone moving in a race, at Le Mans brought back fantastic memories and i hope that they return to La Sarthe again. Thanks to all involved from a true Group C fan.

[AllonFS]

Fantastic sight and sound that these things made. They certainly looked and sounded the part and I keep everything crossed that one day the ACO rules and regs lead to another set of cars like these in LMP/Group C or whatever they may call it. Difficult to get passionate about the Audis (however good they are), where as these really got me excited.

And as others have said, thanks to the guys who keep these cars where they should be - on the track.

[The Badger]

Im not saying that I dont appreciate seeing them again . Just they dont remind me of what they were like is all . I would love to have seen Wallace in 1 of those Jags !!!

[24_heures]

Wallace drove an XJR-10 at Monza past year. He wasn't much quicker than Justin Law who was sharing.

He said the car was running WELL down on the power they used to have. I guess that goes some way to explaining why they weren't as fast as we might have expected.

[JAG]

Originally posted by AllonFS
Fantastic sight and sound that these things made. They certainly looked and sounded the part and I keep everything crossed that one day the ACO rules and regs lead to another set of cars like these in LMP/Group C or whatever they may call it. Difficult to get passionate about the Audis (however good they are), where as these really got me excited.

And as others have said, thanks to the guys who keep these cars where they should be - on the track.

Believe me in years to come, you'll be getting excited about watching an Audi in historic races.

I've watched half a dozen Group C races since 2001, including a 2 hour day/night race at Silverstone, and although the cars are magnificent you soon become complacent about them.

On the other hand I have not seen an R8 since the 2001 Donnington ELMS race, and I am really, really looking forward to seeing these cars again in the Silverstone LMES race.

[24_heures]

Familiarity breeds....
Absence makes the heart....


They both ring true don't they?

[AllonFS]

Originally posted by 24_heures
Familiarity breeds....
Absence makes the heart....


They both ring true don't they?

Fair point, nostalgia ain't what it used to be...

[aries-project]

From a drivers point of view the Le Mans race was always going to be a struggle.For most of us a new circuit and a particularly long one!1 hours practice/qualifying which turned out to be damp and on slicks,and maybe a dozen cars being raced for the first time by their respective drivers.Put all that in the pot there will always be a big difference with the drivers who are familiar with the circuit and or their cars.Watch at a circuit that we all know well and you will see more people "going for it", misfires don't help either!
What we really want is another invitation and have more track time and even more cars, a major shunt would have been a pr disaster.

[vandijk]

Originally posted by 24_heures
You're right vandijk. The entire meeting has been cancelled. Looked like it would have been a cracker with most of the major historic groups involved.

This sucks... all we have in the Netherlands are stupid cup races (they even race the Toyota Yaris here :-( ). Luckely Belgium and Germany are not too far away...