[WEC] FIA World Endurance Championship

[Jacques Rabbit]

The argument that the WEC will be the only game in town is a weak one. Teams can choose to do nothing, or completely retool (I know both Muscle Milk and Conquest have explored IndyCar partnerships, for example). If I were the last man on Earth, women still wouldn't want to be with me.

The ALMS, ELMS, and Asian Le Mans Series all should have been outlets for manufacturers to sell customer cars to help justify WEC programs. They had to do something to entice Audi, Peugeot, Toyota, and in 2014, Porsche, to engage in programs like that. They didn't, and now WEC will be the only place for LMP1 to race. I wonder how long the health of GT3 racing makes a strong push on the ACO and Le Mans to rethink prototypes in general. I don't believe the 2014 LMP1 regulations are going to make enough of a difference to get grids back; you're still faced with a class that's gotten too expensive for privateers but doesn't have enough factory interest to sustain itself.

I love LMP1 cars, but I've loved a lot of racecars that don't run anymore. I get the impression that proper prototypes may have run their course, and if they have, I hope they gear toward GT racing, instead of a prototype-in-name-only like the U.S. does. That's another discussion, though.

I don't think the world is ending because the grid is lighter than speculation in October would have had you believe. I do think that the WEC's decline in participation is mirrored by those in the regional series, and that's what worries me, because we've seen the ELMS, ALMS, and Asian Le Mans Series all fold before. ELMS and Asian Le Mans only came back trying to do the same thing over and over; why would it work again?

[Simmi]

Good post Jacques Rabbit. Something else is needed to entice them in. I still think a hypercar equivalent class should be added in the long run.

I just don't see anything else coming alongside Audi-Toyota-Porsche in the top class for the foreseeable future.

[Purist]

The trouble is, unless you have that halo car class that really sticks out (for the McLaren F1s and such of the world), will a GT-only series have particularly (or any) more appeal than the various tin-top series?

[Mike_Wooshy]

Bring back sports cars of old! touring cars and sports cars all on one track!!!

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Purist

The trouble is, unless you have that halo car class that really sticks out (for the McLaren F1s and such of the world), will a GT-only series have particularly (or any) more appeal than the various tin-top series?

I don't think anyone wants a GT-only series. But going back to the late 90's where there were numerous different ways you could win a race in terms of car design.

With all the alternative technology and hybrid capabilities now you'd like to think there are some interesting ways they could bring performance closer together.

But this is a debate that's been had a thousand times.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Purist

The trouble is, unless you have that halo car class that really sticks out (for the McLaren F1s and such of the world), will a GT-only series have particularly (or any) more appeal than the various tin-top series?

Interesting point but in reality they are a high level tintop series, for me much reminiscent of GT racing in the 60's or 70's Gr.5 and possibly 80's Gr.A in terms of appeal.

However that's isn't to say that they are suitable for a global FIA endurance series as the main hardware!

[Starfish Primer]

Touring cars can be as expensive as GT and are worse as marketing vehicles. A Ferrari or a Porsche can bring more sponsors than a Focus or a Cruze.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Starfish Primer

Touring cars can be as expensive as GT and are worse as marketing vehicles. A Ferrari or a Porsche can bring more sponsors than a Focus or a Cruze.

While you are absolutely right about the first one (400.000€ for a WTCC sped Civic!), I am not too sure about your second argument. There's no chance in hell most of us will ever own a Ferrari or a new-ish Porsche (not counting used Boxsters here), but everybody can relate to a Golf or a Focus - so depending on the product you are trying to sell and all other things being equal, that should actually resonate with more people.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Mike_Wooshy

Bring back sports cars of old! touring cars and sports cars all on one track!!!

Not for me. Never the twain as far as I'm concerned.

[The Badger]

Funny enough , there is a championship for Touring cars , it happens to be called a Touring car championship !!!

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

While you are absolutely right about the first one (400.000€ for a WTCC sped Civic!), I am not too sure about your second argument. There's no chance in hell most of us will ever own a Ferrari or a new-ish Porsche (not counting used Boxsters here), but everybody can relate to a Golf or a Focus - so depending on the product you are trying to sell and all other things being equal, that should actually resonate with more people.

But 'big bangers' or noisy aspirational types of cars have always been a more effective marketing tool for makes in major series as they are the grandee's of a manufacturers range. Hot hatches belong in smaller classes or one make racing.

A 458 or aston vantage has a similar appeal to a batmobile or Gr.A XJS or 635...

They all have that wow factor that top level 'roof racing' needs to attract the public and sponsors.

[Speed-King]

But 'big bangers' or noisy aspirational types of cars have always been a more effective marketing tool for makes in major series as they are the grandee's of a manufacturers range. Hot hatches belong in smaller classes or one make racing.

Really? Look at where most national touring car series are on the totem pole and where the respective GT/sportscar series are!

BTCC outdraws Brit GT by a factor of 10.
Same goes for DTM and ADAC GT, and Swedish Touring Cars and their national GT series.

In fact, professional sportscar and GT racing really has been an exception rather than a rule over the last decades in Europe, while there have been plenty of factory efforts in tin tops. There never has been a factory war comparable to late 90s BTCC in GT racing. At least in Europe and on a regular basis.


Doesn't mean tin tops are better, but they seem to attract a bigger part of the public.

[TF110]

"They" was the Privateer LMP1 teams. Not the LMP2 teams. Rebellion, JRM, Strakka, Muscle Milk, Dyson etc. AKAIK, ELMS and AsLMS don't accept LMP1's, so unless they want to run in P2 or GTE or some other series, to stay in LMP1 they'll have to stay in the WEC. All this talk about it's not the only place for them isn't what I was pointing out. My whole statement on the matter is if they want to be in LMP1 still, the WEC is the only place for them. That's only if they want to be in LMP1. I'm not talking about what they'll do in 2014 as far as a GT program or LMP2. Who knows if they'll do that!? I'm just saying P1, the WEC as of now is the only place for them in 2014 onward.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Really? Look at where most national touring car series are on the totem pole and where the respective GT/sportscar series are!

BTCC outdraws Brit GT by a factor of 10.
Same goes for DTM and ADAC GT, and Swedish Touring Cars and their national GT series.

In fact, professional sportscar and GT racing really has been an exception rather than a rule over the last decades in Europe, while there have been plenty of factory efforts in tin tops. There never has been a factory war comparable to late 90s BTCC in GT racing. At least in Europe and on a regular basis.


Doesn't mean tin tops are better, but they seem to attract a bigger part of the public.

But are these current 'touring cars' really effective manufacturer marketing tools? After all are the people watching really buying Chevrolet Cruze's?
No that's why there's no manufacturer interest in the current rouring car formats.

[Thaw Daggerslash]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

BTCC outdraws Brit GT by a factor of 10.

...

Doesn't mean tin tops are better, but they seem to attract a bigger part of the public.

I think it is important to look at the full story though. The BTCC currently enjoys a seven hour live broadcast on ITV4 for every round. The British GT only has a half hour highlights package that is on quite early on a Saturday (from memory) on channel four. Of course the BTCC is going to be more popular when most people aren't aware that British GT even exists thanks to its pathetic TV deal.

The British GT is rapidly expanding in terms of quality and size when it comes to grid numbers, whereas many agree that last year was one of the BTCC's worst in a long, long time. You only had to look at some of the comments in the touring car sub-forum here to know that few will remember it as a classic, by any stretch of the imagination.

I genuinely believe that if the British GT had a TV package (or even streamed races live online like many other championships do now) as good as the BTCC's, British GT would be just as, if not more, popular than the BTCC.

I agree with what was said a couple of posts ago too. GT cars are a lot more marketable because...well, they're desirable. I think it is fair to say that when you're young, a lot of people grow up dreaming of owning a Ferrari, a Porsche or an Aston Martin or whatever. It doesn't really matter if you never do, it is something that will stay with most people for most their life. Few people dream of owning a Honda Civic or MG 6 in the same way, because you can see them every day in your local supermarket's car-park. They are not really anything special.

To summarise, I think British GT appeals more to the true petrol heads, whereas BTCC is more for people who like crashes and the inevitable Plato/Neal arguments.

[Victor_RO]

ADR-Delta to continue in the WEC in LMP2 for 2013, keeps John Martin in the driving squad.

[Mal]

Is it me or does this smack of a last minute panic to get some missing entries?

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...ormance-boost/

[Victor_RO]

EDIT: Bloody hell, got ninja-ed and posted the same thing at the same time.

[Coach Ep]

Excellent timing once again by the ACO & FIA - announced on entry deadline day...

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Excellent timing once again by the ACO & FIA - announced on entry deadline day...

Don't worry, any team seriously thinking about entering Le Mans and the WEC would have know this before.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by CTD

Don't worry, any team seriously thinking about entering Le Mans and the WEC would have know this before.

Indeed, these rule changes have been rumoured for a while. See http://www.motorsport-total.com/wec/..._13010703.html

[Simmi]

Nice to get a bit of clarity around Rebellion from GG on MWM.

They will have one full-season entry and an additional car for the European rounds through to Le Mans.

So that's good news to be honest. Strakka also will be back.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

ADR-Delta to continue in the WEC in LMP2 for 2013, keeps John Martin in the driving squad.

Hope they keep Tor Greaves .

[Simmi]

There we go Graham says on MWM what I've been saying - McLaren GTE is dead.

[TF110]

Sucks for them. Seems better for them to stick to BOP'd GT3 anyway.