[Driver] Vettel vs Webber: Round 2

[wnut]

Faultless display Mark - Well done!

[David Brand]

A few weeks ago I would have agreed that Vettel had the edge on Webber, but this last week has shown that Webber is as good as anyone.

Being able to pull (an accumulated) 30+ second lead on your highly rated team mate is phenomenal. Every time someone posted a fast lap Webber beat it (until the last segment where he was told to conserve).

Two pole - podium wins and smashed the field both times. He has been underrated for a long time, but now what fans have always known he could do is on display for all.

Great win Mark, I will always remember that one.

[pplater]

Originally Posted by cmotd

Nice one Webz! It feels like a 9 year emotional investment in supporting you is now paying off lol

This is exactly how I feel. All these years of staying up until 3am only for an engine to blow up or whatever are fading away. Go son!!!

If only he could have prduced a result in Australia. Ah, well.

[OZ_HCR32]

And to think that in China Vettel copied Webber's setup to get the pace in quali and the race.

Could it be that Vettel is struggling with getting his head around the car and some of th echanges-updates. Webber's car has seemed supreme lately.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by David Brand

A few weeks ago I would have agreed that Vettel had the edge on Webber, but this last week has shown that Webber is as good as anyone.

Being able to pull (an accumulated) 30+ second lead on your highly rated team mate is phenomenal. Every time someone posted a fast lap Webber beat it (until the last segment where he was told to conserve).

Two pole - podium wins and smashed the field both times. He has been underrated for a long time, but now what fans have always known he could do is on display for all.

Great win Mark, I will always remember that one.

Agree completely.

It's not so much the fact Webber got pole... it's how he got pole. He blew his opponents to the scheizenhausen.

Webber is a changed man atm. Christian Horner from RBR agreed and basically put Webber's speed improvement to new found confidence in himself.

I wonder how Vettel will answer the challenge? I'm sure Vettel will respond but it will be interesting to see how he responds to his teammate's ascendancy.

[wnut]

Worst thing that Vettel did in his career was pass Webber in Malaysia.
It seems to have spurred him on to never before seen hieghts!

[OZ_HCR32]

Interesting comment re Malaysia. Could be right! Oh how the weather killed China for RBR fans when Webber jumped Vettel

[Splatz the Cow]

Reflecting on Webber's comments that he made at the beginning of this year, when he said that he would be better prepared, compared to 2009.

It wasn't that he was affected by his leg so much last year, as he did not have a pre-season to prepare because of the MTB/4WD accident. In 2010 he was completely happy with his preparation, and felt that he would be able to give 100% from the very beginning this time, having completed all of the pre-season testing, and his own fitness work.

It is now reasonable to say that he has got back his old qualifying performances; improved his race consistancy; got in peak fitness; and very strong focus and concentration.

This is the first time I have ever seen all aspects of him come together, and it is happening when he is in the top car.

At the same time, Alonso, Hamilton, Button, Massa, Rosberg, and to some extent Vettel, are being inconsistant. They really need to get their acts together.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by cmotd

Sebs brake issue helped him to finish one spot higher than he otherwise would have so how was it a problem? Hamiltons dodgy wheel would have most likely lasted another few laps if he hadn't been pushing so hard, which he was doing in the hope that Webber would get the same problem as Seb. Hence Sebs brake issue got him on the podium. How did you miss that?

I'm totally baffled, he had to stop twice then couldn't use his brakes, yet it helped him finish higher

Had Lewis backed off earlier, maybe his wheel would have lasted the entire race, but he and everyone else wasn't to know that, but it didn't and that was hardly something that was affected by Sebastian. Had Seb not had the brake issue Lewis would still have gone out so i don't your logic.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Splatz the Cow

Reflecting on Webber's comments that he made at the beginning of this year, when he said that he would be better prepared, compared to 2009.

It wasn't that he was affected by his leg so much last year, as he did not have a pre-season to prepare because of the MTB/4WD accident. In 2010 he was completely happy with his preparation, and felt that he would be able to give 100% from the very beginning this time, having completed all of the pre-season testing, and his own fitness work.

It is now reasonable to say that he has got back his old qualifying performances; improved his race consistancy; got in peak fitness; and very strong focus and concentration.

This is the first time I have ever seen all aspects of him come together, and it is happening when he is in the top car.

At the same time, Alonso, Hamilton, Button, Massa, Rosberg, and to some extent Vettel, are being inconsistant. They really need to get their acts together.

Hmmmmmmm

I reckon Webber could be doing a Tiger Woods.

No wonder he seems more relaxed and confident this year compared to other years.

[Splatz the Cow]

You mean Webber's fired his golf coach, too?

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Splatz the Cow

You mean Webber's fired his golf coach, too?

That still wouldn't stop Tiger from getting his club out. Nothing to stop Webber either.

Now this thread might be getting alarmingly off topic... and I might run the risk of taking a permanent holiday... but it has to be asked... how does Mark go to bed at night with his... err, current partner? Surely he must be getting quality overtures from everywhere?

[Born Racer]

I'm delighted to see Webber currently doing so well.

Vettel's damn good, but I don't seem him as good as many others do yet. He's not a great yet, and we're seeing that now.

[Marbot]

It will be interesting to see now which of these two wins the WDC.

If McLaren and Ferrari were banking on their F-ducts to gain an advantage, well it looks like they're definitely 'F-ducted' in that department.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Now this thread might be getting alarmingly off topic... and I might run the risk of taking a permanent holiday... but it has to be asked... how does Mark go to bed at night with his... err, current partner? Surely he must be getting quality overtures from everywhere?

Words fail me.

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by Marbot

If McLaren and Ferrari were banking on their F-ducts to gain an advantage, well it looks like they're definitely 'F-ducted' in that department.

Quickie,
I know Red Bull bought an upgrade to Barcelona for 40% of the car.
I know Mclaren and Mercedes also upgraded significantly.
Apart from Ferrari's F-duct, did they have any upgrades at Barcelona, or is their team bringing them along later. (Christ I hope so!!)
I appreciate Red Bull extended their advantage over everyone, but prior to Barcelona, Ferrari were seen to be faster than Mclaren etc.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Words fail me.

I said exactly the same thing when I first saw her...

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I'm delighted to see Webber currently doing so well.

Vettel's damn good, but I don't seem him as good as many others do yet. He's not a great yet, and we're seeing that now.

Don't be so quick to categorise Vettel just after a few races where he has finished behind his teammate.

Hypothetical, just imagine how much Vettel would be leading the ch/ship by if not for reliability issues. He had some races shot while blitzing the field. The reliability factor must zap his confidence to some degree.

The true test now for Vettel would be how he responds. It's easy for him to lose his way a little with the reliability issues he's had. It might be kick in the guts for him but it still gave Webber a sniff.

Psychologically, at least, Vettel and Webber are at complete opposite ends of the spectrum, atm. If Vettel improves his 'confidence', results might fall back his way again.

[AussieTimmeh]

I think there are four things I can imagine and have seen Vettel really wanted/wants this season:

Beat Webber in Australia - Vettel mentioned with a smile that pole was payback for Webber winning in Germany last year
Win at Monaco - every driver wants this by the sound of it
Win at Germany - home race, why wouldn't he want it more especially after seeing it stung last year
Win the WDC - of course

There will no doubt be more but these are the things I am watching for this year. The first two have come and gone, Vettel was pretty happy in Aus up until his retirement, and looked a bit bewildered in Monaco about not having the pace to challenge the lead.

While I look forward to every GP, I'm looking forward to Germany the most to see what happens there after last year. It'll be interesting to see which driver has form between now and then also.

[Trev Campbell]

I think everyone is getting a bit carried away. I'm a long time supporter of Mark, as someone else has said the 9 + years of support investment is starting to pay off.

But we are only 6 races into a 19 race season, there is still plenty of water to flow under the bridge.

Mark is currently having a real purple patch but you would be silly to think it will last the entire season (Although I have everything crossed that it does) I would expect Vettel to fightback sooner rather than later.

Valencia is comming up, a circuit Webber has admited he hates.

I would expect Ferrari and McLaren to really start to catch up to Red Bull, look at the perfomance gain McLaren were able to make from the start to the end of last year

There are some power circuits coming up which have been an issue for Red Bull/Renault last year having one of the least powerful engines.

And with the new point score a bad race is really punished points wise.

But as I said I have everything crossed for a MW WDC

[cmotd]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I'm totally baffled, he had to stop twice then couldn't use his brakes, yet it helped him finish higher

Your bafflement is duly noted! I'm right about this, just trust me and you'll be OK


[___>

[rocketracer]

Originally Posted by Trev Campbell

I think everyone is getting a bit carried away. I'm a long time supporter of Mark, as someone else has said the 9 + years of support investment is starting to pay off.

But we are only 6 races into a 19 race season, there is still plenty of water to flow under the bridge.

Mark is currently having a real purple patch but you would be silly to think it will last the entire season (Although I have everything crossed that it does) I would expect Vettel to fightback sooner rather than later.

Valencia is comming up, a circuit Webber has admited he hates.

I would expect Ferrari and McLaren to really start to catch up to Red Bull, look at the perfomance gain McLaren were able to make from the start to the end of last year

There are some power circuits coming up which have been an issue for Red Bull/Renault last year having one of the least powerful engines.

And with the new point score a bad race is really punished points wise.

But as I said I have everything crossed for a MW WDC

good post.

webber was always going to be strong at Monaco, as it is a track at which he really excels.

but in order to assemble a WDC campaign, it is important to maximise the points taken from your less favourable rounds. Turkey and Valencia will be a very good test of this, as traditionally, they have suited his main rivals more than Mark.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Don't be so quick to categorise Vettel just after a few races where he has finished behind his teammate.

I see why you say this, but my point is more that Vettel is not (yet) for me the superstar some make him out to be. Unlike the very best, I have yet to have a moment with him where I thought "How the hell did he do that?!". He also has not exerted much superiority over his team-mate where the greats do (unless they are partnered with another great). Webber has usually be consistently too close to him for me to consider Vettel as a great, as I rate Mark a lot, but again do not consider him to be amongst the very best.

Hamilton
Alonso
Schumacher (in the past- we'll see if he gets back to this standard)

These are the only drivers I'd consider in my top category of F1 drivers.

[AussieTimmeh]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Hamilton
Alonso
Schumacher (in the past- we'll see if he gets back to this standard)

These are the only drivers I'd consider in my top category of F1 drivers.

Interesting you single these men out when you look at who the controversial drivers have been. Lying to stewards, parking cars in the middle of the track in qualifying, etc... can see similar traits to some of the past greats (ramming title contenders etc).

I don't see those traits in either Webber or Vettel which is why I think more highly of them as role models than the 'greats' and have supported both of them over the years (one frustratingly more than the other of course).

[Born Racer]

It's a good point. Senna and Prost had their moments too. Piquet too (although I don't consider him a great).