[WEC] BoP. Brilliant or Pants.

[RL17]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Based on RL17 feedback. Instead of expressing the relative pace as a %, it is expressed as difference in lap time at Le Mans. Assuming a 210s nominal lap time.


Still lots of assumptions and ultimately it is a simple model, but it doesn't look completely stupid. Remember this is based on Top 50 lap time performance. My guess on this is that Toyota will do better in Q - if only because they will manage their tyres better. Also I would expect Vanwall to be closer to Glickenhaus - the start point of this is Spa and they didn't have that many laps to get the best Top 50 they could have. So should do better if they get, say 100 laps at Le Mans.

Thanks Adam, sorry for delay in replying but had a manic build up to my Le Mans trip rearranging and driving my partner for holiday after she fractured leg 2 weeks before.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Steve McQ

Regarding Porsche vs Ferrari in GTE : Porsche have the best Pro drivers, Ferrari line-ups the best Ams. That is my theory !

Yes, that would do it.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by RL17

Thanks Adam, sorry for delay in replying but had a manic build up to my Le Mans trip rearranging and driving my partner for holiday after she fractured leg 2 weeks before.

ouch, hope they are recovering.

Thanks for the suggestion. It was interesting to look at.

[RL17]

Originally Posted by Adam43

ouch, hope they are recovering.

Thanks for the suggestion. It was interesting to look at.

Thanks. Yep doing well and healing up - no driving or walking far for another 3 weeks
Best regards
Reg

[RL17]

PS pretty excellent predictions of top 3 manufacturer race pace

[Simmi]

Finger in the air random BOP is back from the WEC Committee as they continue to row back all their earlier assurances.

They've now released individual tables for the final three rounds. Pretty funny how quickly this went back to the GT-Pro fettling process. Probably inevitable though.

[Adam43]

The Hypercar gradual change for some is a bit surprising - certainly not random! I guess there is a circuit reason as we go Monza, Fuji, Bahrain.

From a cursory glance, GTE makes sense on the performances we saw (not that it is based on lap times as such).

[tomcug]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Finger in the air random BOP is back from the WEC Committee as they continue to row back all their earlier assurances

BOP was almost perfect at Le Mans, I see nothing to worry about. The ACO is finally making things right.

Originally Posted by Simmi

Pretty funny how quickly this went back to the GT-Pro fettling process. Probably inevitable though.

That previous BOP method based on vague "theoretical performance simulation" (or whatever they called it) was a guaranteed fail at balancing the cars correctly, so yea, was inevitable right from the start

[hondafan37]

New BOP for the last 3 rounds

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...nds-of-season/

[joeb]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

New BOP for the last 3 rounds

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...nds-of-season/

Interesting that Glock was only car untouched in Hypercar.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by tomcug

BOP was almost perfect at Le Mans, I see nothing to worry about. The ACO is finally making things right.

I need to sit and have a proper look at these, but it strikes me that these are pretty minor changes. So if it was “almost perfect” then that makes sense!

Also, we are at different circuits so different BoP is potentially to be expected. Just like they had different Sebring to Portimao/Spa.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by joeb

Interesting that Glock was only car untouched in Hypercar.

Not going to finish the season is it.

[Adam43]

Looking at this, there is something of actual interest. The Peugeot has a lower 135km/h FWD deployment speed from Fuji onwards (in the dry only).

Ooo, that’s interesting. There are some slow corners to get the power down there and Bahrain too.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Not going to finish the season is it.

Unlikely. Hoping for a strong showing at Monza. Last year it was nearly a victory before a technical issue. Or was that 2 years ago?

[Koenigsegg]

Originally Posted by joeb

Unlikely. Hoping for a strong showing at Monza. Last year it was nearly a victory before a technical issue. Or was that 2 years ago?

It was last year.

[TF110]

The bop should have never changed before Le Mans except for the obvious outliers like Peugeot and non-hybrids. That would have showed the rule makers who stood where. Then make changes accordingly.

[Adam43]

BoP Tables Update. I've limited it to just 2023.

Weight (Kg)

-- Bulletin --	--- Track ---	TOYOTA	GLICKENHAUS	ORECA	PEUGEOT	CADILLAC	FERRARI	PORSCHE	VANWALL
8/3/2023	Sebring	1062	1030		1049	1038	1057	1048	1030
8/3/2023	Portimao	1043	1030		1042	1035	1040	1045	1030
31/5/2023	Le Mans	1080	1030		1042	1046	1064	1048	1030
3/7/2023	Monza	1080	1030		1046	1032	1069	1049	1030
3/7/2023	Fuji	1080	1030		1038	1039	1076	1054	1030
3/7/2023	Bahrain	1080	1030		1041	1037	1075	1053	1030
		GR010 Hybrid	-- 007 LMH --	---- R13 ----	---- 9X8 ----	- V-Series.R	--- 499P ----	---- 963 ----	Vandervell 680

Max Power (kW)

-- Bulletin --	--- Track ---	TOYOTA	GLICKENHAUS	ORECA	PEUGEOT	CADILLAC	FERRARI	PORSCHE	VANWALL
8/3/2023	Sebring	517	520		518	513	515	517	511
8/3/2023	Portimao	512	520		516	513	509	516	512
31/5/2023	Le Mans	512	520		516	513	509	516	512
3/7/2023	Monza	507	520		520	498	497	506	520
3/7/2023	Fuji	514	520		520	505	505	514	520
3/7/2023	Bahrain	514	520		520	504	505	514	520
		GR010 Hybrid	-- 007 LMH --	---- R13 ----	---- 9X8 ----	- V-Series.R	--- 499P ----	---- 963 ----	Vandervell 680

Ft.Depl. Speed (kph in DRY)

-- Bulletin --	--- Track ---	TOYOTA	PEUGEOT	FERRARI
8/3/2023	Sebring	190	150	190
8/3/2023	Portimao	190	150	190
31/5/2023	Le Mans	190	150	190
3/7/2023	Monza	190	150	190
3/7/2023	Fuji	190	135	190
3/7/2023	Bahrain	190	135	190
		GR010 Hybrid	---- 9X8 ----	--- 499P ----

Ft.Depl. Speed (kph in WET)

-- Bulletin --	--- Track ---	TOYOTA	PEUGEOT	FERRARI
8/3/2023	Sebring	190	150	190
8/3/2023	Portimao	190	150	190
31/5/2023	Le Mans	190	150	190
3/7/2023	Monza	190	150	190
3/7/2023	Fuji	190	150	190
3/7/2023	Bahrain	190	150	190
		GR010 Hybrid	---- 9X8 ----	--- 499P ----

Energy Allocation (MJ)

-- Bulletin --	--- Track ---	TOYOTA	GLICKENHAUS	ORECA	PEUGEOT	CADILLAC	FERRARI	PORSCHE	VANWALL
8/3/2023	Sebring	913	911		909	905	908	912	900
8/3/2023	Portimao	904	913		908	904	899	910	901
31/5/2023	Le Mans	908	913		908	905	901	910	901
3/7/2023	Monza	908	916		914	890	893	899	913
3/7/2023	Fuji	907	909		908	894	898	906	903
3/7/2023	Bahrain	908	909		908	895	901	909	906
		GR010 Hybrid	-- 007 LMH --	---- R13 ----	---- 9X8 ----	- V-Series.R	--- 499P ----	---- 963 ----	Vandervell 680

Add Docking Time (s)

-- Bulletin --	--- Track ---	TOYOTA	GLICKENHAUS	ORECA	PEUGEOT	CADILLAC	FERRARI	PORSCHE	VANWALL
8/3/2023	Sebring	1.2	0		1.2	1	1.2	1	0
8/3/2023	Portimao	1.2	0		1.2	1	1.2	1	0
31/5/2023	Le Mans	1.2	0		1.2	1	1.2	1	0
3/7/2023	Monza	1.2	0		1.2	1	1.2	1	0
3/7/2023	Fuji	1.2	0		1.2	1	1.2	1	0
3/7/2023	Bahrain	1.2	0		1.2	1	1.2	1	0
		GR010 Hybrid	-- 007 LMH --	---- R13 ----	---- 9X8 ----	- V-Series.R	--- 499P ----	---- 963 ----	Vandervell 680

I need to remove the Oreca for the 2023 only update. I'll do later...

[Adam43]

The performance changes over the last three races has a decent amount of consistency. Other than maybe there are a few banging against a “limit” (Toyota weight and Peugeot power).

Random thought based on nothing: maybe they would like to go higher on the Peugeot, but don’t want to exceed 520kW so are giving them 135km/h dry FWD. This is a made up guess.

Other changes from LM to Monza are interesting. Some cars are up weight and up on power and others down on both. Somewhat offsetting, but will make a small tweak on how the lap times are made.

The energy changes are a little odd over the last three races. I don't get that. They go up and down in different directions for different cars.

[S griffin]

It's always going to be controversial, but overall I think they've struck the right balance. It's still up to the teams to work out the system best they can, it's not all down to BOP

Peugeot are proof that you can't rely only on BOP. They still haven't done enough yet.

Anyway it should be interesting how it goes at Monza. If it as competitive as LM, that would be good. However the regulators must err against doing too much.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Adam43

The energy changes are a little odd over the last three races. I don't get that. They go up and down in different directions for different cars.

It is because the organizers have access to data we don't see At least that is the line that is often given for IMSA!

I like the consistency of the Glick bop. Don't understand the need to take any power away for the last 2 races but hey, they have access to data we don't see!

[rika]

I have impression they only want ACO Hypercars to win and not IMSA Hypercars.
What I see is they do no get same chance.

Not here, not there, not anywere?




That is just my opinion of what I see at races. Maybe you think otherwise?






Will see tomorrow but think I will be disappointed again on that.

[Gerard C]

When it's for the show and only for the show, drop dead about sport, anything goes for the show.IMO.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by rika

I have impression they only want ACO Hypercars to win and not IMSA Hypercars.
What I see is they do no get same chance.

Not here, not there, not anywere?




That is just my opinion of what I see at races. Maybe you think otherwise?






Will see tomorrow but think I will be disappointed again on that.

How do you arrive at that opinion?

[rika]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

How do you arrive at that opinion?

Just is I look at results.


Not only race but also qualifying session.


All race 1 and 2 for ACO car
All grid 1-2-3 for ACO car


Even practice sessions.
Of 17 so far (was 4 at Le Mans) 16 session won by ACO car, only 1 IMSA car.





So I see pattern, and worry.

That why I expect tomorrow will be win again for ACO car and no hope for Cadillac or Porsche.

[Gerard C]

What you call pattern could be named different categories and BoP, don't you think so? Or unification or mondialisazion, don't you think so?