LMS 2009 Calendar - Page 3

LeMans.pt · 11 Oct 2008, 23:59 (Ref:2309432)

Sure... let's all go to America. Quoting Dead Kennedys: California Übber Alles!!!

Ill keep this simple and clear. Someone, doesn't want to LMS be a rival of ALMS. Let´s keep the Europeans with a small size championship, because thay already have Le Mans. For the big time, for the big guy, an for the big bucks, let some of them to come to America, where the "real" stuff is.

@JAG... to they use a different kind of LMPs in America? or are you suggesting that they have the money, and we don't?

The Badger · 12 Oct 2008, 00:01 (Ref:2309433)

You could run a 962 on a much smaller budget than current LMP's, maybe even GT2's.

Yes you could ..... and a Mars bar was only 22 pence back then . The 962 was still an expensive beast to run , especially if you were a top team .

Aslak Vind · 12 Oct 2008, 00:02 (Ref:2309436)

I fail to see that development has been encountered for, here?

Then again, I could be wrong..

The Badger · 12 Oct 2008, 00:11 (Ref:2309443)

We always seem to talk about the 962 , but there were composite tubs out there then , and in the end the 962 in most privateer hands had a composite tub too . For that time , that was expensive technology , or not ?

Aslak Vind · 12 Oct 2008, 00:11 (Ref:2309444)

Especially if you break it, mate..

isynge · 12 Oct 2008, 00:15 (Ref:2309447)

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

Sure... let's all go to America. Quoting Dead Kennedys: California Übber Alles!!!

Ill keep this simple and clear. Someone, doesn't want to LMS be a rival of ALMS. Let´s keep the Europeans with a small size championship, because thay already have Le Mans. For the big time, for the big guy, an for the big bucks, let some of them to come to America, where the "real" stuff is.

@JAG... to they use a different kind of LMPs in America? or are you suggesting that they have the money, and we don't?

I'll put my hand up here - I have no desire to see the LMS being a rival of the ALMS. There's enough competition for cash now without getting into an utterly self destructive cycle of navel gazing competition between two more or less identical series.

The ALMS and LMS series calendars allow for each other - and reflect the dynamics of the two markets. Where's the problem there?

Seriously, for the LMS to start regarding the ALMS would at the best of times be a curous decision, in late 2008 it would be height of idiocy.

P.S. Love having the Dead Kennedys cited on here - confirms that this forum attracts a more cultured form of poster

The Badger · 12 Oct 2008, 01:19 (Ref:2309476)

Quote:

Originally Posted by isynge

P.S. Love having the Dead Kennedys cited on here - confirms that this forum attracts a more cultured form of poster

LMAO@you

Aslak Vind · 12 Oct 2008, 01:22 (Ref:2309478)

Laughing me bum off..

isynge · 12 Oct 2008, 02:12 (Ref:2309495)

Quote:

Originally Posted by isynge

P.S. Love having the Dead Kennedys cited on here - confirms that this forum attracts a more cultured form of poster

Just in case anyone takes this the wrong way I'd like to clarify that I like the confirmation that sometimes those who like late 20th century sub-pop can also be sportscar fans.

Me. I'm more a 4AD oblique cold ambient sort of person but that doesn't stop me appreciating decently enjoyable music!

LeMans.pt · 12 Oct 2008, 02:19 (Ref:2309502)

Quote:

Originally Posted by isynge

Just in case anyone takes this the wrong way I'd like to clarify that I like the confirmation that sometimes those who like late 20th century sub-pop can also be sportscar fans.

Me. I'm more a 4AD oblique cold ambient sort of person but that doesn't stop me appreciating decently enjoyable music!

4AD? Puff.... Bauhaus, Birthday Party, Clan of Xymox, Dead can Dance, His name is Alive, Pixies... those where the days!

My friend... I like late 20th century sub-pop, i have a degree in fine-arts, graphic design to be more specific... how "so much not sportscar fan" that could be?

LeMans.pt · 12 Oct 2008, 02:24 (Ref:2309505)

Quote:

Originally Posted by isynge

I'll put my hand up here - I have no desire to see the LMS being a rival of the ALMS. There's enough competition for cash now without getting into an utterly self destructive cycle of navel gazing competition between two more or less identical series.

The ALMS and LMS series calendars allow for each other - and reflect the dynamics of the two markets. Where's the problem there?

Seriously, for the LMS to start regarding the ALMS would at the best of times be a curous decision, in late 2008 it would be height of idiocy.

Two different championships, two different markets. Why should we continuously castrate LMS of growing up, in order for 2,3 or 4 teams can go show off in the ALMS? If they are so preoccupied with the ALMS "classics" being accessible to European teams, so get some courage an start a world series. What i really, really wanted to see was a "Le Mans World Series" with both championships united in one.

cmk · 12 Oct 2008, 03:09 (Ref:2309517)

Why does having different styles mean that the LMS is being forced down somehow? The LMS design is big grids (so hardly a small championship), high levels of gentlemen driver participation and classic event locations. The ALMS is closer to all-pro, TV-friendly sprints at venues that are selected partially for accessibility at the track. I don't think that anyone would suggest that the two are really competing at present, and I think it should stay that way. The ALMS is largely dominated by teams based in North America, and the LMS by teams based in Europe. For various reasons they have different economical models that work for them. Long may the current system reign, imo.

PS: biologists aren't much closer to the target demographic of sportscar racers than fine-arts majors. I won't pigeonhole my tastes in music, except to say that I've been listening to a lot of ECM lately (if we're shouting out record labels).

deggis · 12 Oct 2008, 07:37 (Ref:2309813)

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

Do me a favour... don't put words on my mouth that i didn't said. You didn´t read me speaking of "boredom" or "anti-sportscar races"... so... take it easy.

Sorry, it was a little bit pointless provocation from me.

deggis · 12 Oct 2008, 07:39 (Ref:2309815)

Anyone remembers this?

http://www.planetlemans.com/2008/08/...e-near-future/

So whatever they do with the race formats, I guess it reflects teams' opinions.

Subaru_WRX_STi · 12 Oct 2008, 07:57 (Ref:2309839)

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

What i really, really wanted to see was a "Le Mans World Series" with both championships united in one.

it will be a huge mistake if ACO create such a thing, it will rise the already higher costs, and don't forget the original purpose in creating the "Le Mans Endurance Series" in 2004, is to create a Le Mans style championship in Europe for european teams who cant do the ALMS due to high costs !

3 continental series, in Europe, America and the incoming Asian one, and Le Mans 24 Hours as the highlight of the season and a world cup of endurance racing

LeMans.pt · 12 Oct 2008, 12:30 (Ref:2310115)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmk

The LMS design is big grids (so hardly a small championship), high levels of gentlemen driver participation and classic event locations. The ALMS is closer to all-pro, TV-friendly sprints at venues that are selected partially for accessibility at the track.

Correct, so... why shouldn't LMS be like that? Why keep the gentelmen-drivers here and all pros to America? Why? Why can´t we have a decent championship with 8/10 rounds. Is ALMS More important than LMS?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmk

I don't think that anyone would suggest that the two are really competing at present, and I think it should stay that way. The ALMS is largely dominated by teams based in North America, and the LMS by teams based in Europe.

No they don't... ALMS simply dominates everything except Le Mans 24. They even made a new TV settle to Europe to definitely invade our homes with their races... For me, that's not a problem, more races to watch. But the impact in the common non-fan watcher is immense. Championships are long, no mater the sport, and people are more connect no something that is decided by a long term regularity. This 5 races model surelly works for sportscar fans but dosn´t work for the other auto racing fans and common public-

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmk

For various reasons they have different economical models that work for them. Long may the current system reign, imo.

Sorry... but i hope not

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmk

PS: biologists aren't much closer to the target demographic of sportscar racers than fine-arts majors. I won't pigeonhole my tastes in music, except to say that I've been listening to a lot of ECM lately (if we're shouting out record labels).

lol. No they aren't...

LeMans.pt · 12 Oct 2008, 12:31 (Ref:2310116)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deggis

Sorry, it was a little bit pointless provocation from me.

LeMans.pt · 12 Oct 2008, 12:37 (Ref:2310123)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

it will be a huge mistake if ACO create such a thing, it will rise the already higher costs, and don't forget the original purpose in creating the "Le Mans Endurance Series" in 2004, is to create a Le Mans style championship in Europe for European teams who cant do the ALMS due to high costs !

Sorry but i can't accept that... A Europe Championship for the teams that cant go to America? I don't care... They have their championship, we have ours. LMS in not more important than ALMS, and vice-versa too. This just proves what i´m being saying. ALMS is not letting LMS growing up in order to no loose part of their success.

I will not agree with LMS being a kind of 2nd endurance league.. for the weak and the poor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

3 continental series, in Europe, America and the incoming Asian one, and Le Mans 24 Hours as the highlight of the season and a world cup of endurance racing

Fine for me... no questions about it, since LMS and the Asian LMS are as equal as ALMS and not some "garbage can" for those who can "pursuit the americamn dream in the new world".

Speed-King · 12 Oct 2008, 12:42 (Ref:2310126)

Quote:

Is ALMS More important than LMS?

In certain a way it is. In America there's NASCAR and then it's the IRL and ALMS that are the two biggest series below that, so ALMS is near the top of the motorsports-totem-pole.

Whereas in Europe, you have F1, WTCC, the various national touring car championships and -at least at the moment - FIA GT that all occupy the spots above LMS on the pole, so LMS is near the bottom, and you can see this in the high percentage of amateurs in the field, at least outside of LMP1.

So for its local market the ALMS is much more important than the LMS.

LeMans.pt · 12 Oct 2008, 13:30 (Ref:2310160)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

So for its local market the ALMS is much more important than the LMS.

I agree, ALMS is the second most followed series in America after NASCAR, but i'm talking just inside endurance. Is ALMS more important than LMS? Because i think that someone is letting LMS growing up ir order to preserve ALMS. They have they own markets so let they work for them and stop pushing the best europeans teams to america. Give them condition to stay where they belong.

johntt · 12 Oct 2008, 14:46 (Ref:2310225)

Anyone noticed the clashes?

Only two of them; Catalunya/St Petersburg and Nurburgring/Mid-Ohio. One more than last year though.

Subaru_WRX_STi · 12 Oct 2008, 14:52 (Ref:2310231)

Quote:

Originally Posted by johntt

Anyone noticed the clashes?

Only two of them; Catalunya/St Petersburg and Nurburgring/Mid-Ohio. One more than last year though.

yes but these clashes doesn't hurt a lot, as LMS teams do only Sebring and 2 final races, PLM and Laguna, the clashes that I dont want to see is with FIA GT, the big one bieng the Portuguese night race and the Spa 24 Hours

LeMans.pt · 12 Oct 2008, 15:33 (Ref:2310254)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

yes but these clashes doesn't hurt a lot, as LMS teams do only Sebring and 2 final races, PLM and Laguna,(...)

Yep. No problem there!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

(...) the clashes that I dont want to see is with FIA GT, the big one bieng the Portuguese night race and the Spa 24 Hours

The last Spa 24 was in the first weekend of august, but during many years, the race was on the last weekend of Jully. Is there any date for 2009 Spa 24, or is just a wishfull thinking?

HORNDAWG · 12 Oct 2008, 16:04 (Ref:2310271)

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

Think so? I hope not...

I hope to Brno in the schedule, and i don´t see the interest of ALMS and/or LMS going to Asia. For that, get courage, and start a World Championship!

The "interest of ALMS and/or LMS going to Asia" is in the promotion of ACO style of Sports Car racing and to grow the base of teams and fans so as to lift their own series and Le mans in the public eye world wide! Especially as it would more than likely not be a permanent addition to either schedule.

It seems to me, by the posts in this thread, that is evidently not a priority for some as it appears they feel it is a degradation to their own series (which is inferior ? ) and do not wish it to be even more so with another series thrown in the mix that could potentially draw teams away. When in actuality it is meant to bolster the whole. Pitty!

Oh, and just which European teams are being pushed away to race in the ALMS, the black hole of Sports Car racing?

L.P.

HORNDAWG · 12 Oct 2008, 16:08 (Ref:2310274)

Quote:

Originally Posted by johntt

Anyone noticed the clashes?

Only two of them; Catalunya/St Petersburg and Nurburgring/Mid-Ohio. One more than last year though.

I also think that the test at Paul Ricard should be moved to the 1st & 2nd of March to allow for teams to test there and still be able to participate at Sebring if they wish.

L.P.

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