[WEC] Toyota LMP1 Discussion

[Japanese Samurai]

About engine trouble at Spa, Japanese Autosport magazine speculate that TS050 engine was trouble free at bench test, so it seems to be a trouble by breaking an underfloor.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

About engine trouble at Spa, Japanese Autosport magazine speculate that TS050 engine was trouble free at bench test, so it seems to be a trouble by breaking an underfloor.

Fragile crank case? Ouch. That might be difficult to fix.

[PascaLM]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

About engine trouble at Spa, Japanese Autosport magazine speculate that TS050 engine was trouble free at bench test, so it seems to be a trouble by breaking an underfloor.

What do you mean by one underfloor ?
The smoke appeared on only one exhaust. I was thinking about a broken turbo or broken piston due to an inappropriate air/gas mixture.

[cokata]

Yeah it was problem with the right side turbo, or one of the 3 cylinders on the right side

[Japanese Samurai]

Sorry for my poor English.
Autosport magazine says that an impact by underfloor contact in Eau Rouge would be the cause.

[Hiro]

According to that magazine Toyota just speculated that hitting the underfloor at Eau Rouge (many times) may have caused that problem because they had had no problems in 10000km bench and 20000km runs before Spa.
Also, #5 problem may not be the same as #6 according to:
motorsport total

[PascaLM]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Sorry for my poor English.
Autosport magazine says that an impact by underfloor contact in Eau Rouge would be the cause.

In 2010, Peugeot covered thousands and thousands kilometres of training without any engine issue, but three engines broke at Le Mans (the fourth could have broken too but the car stopped at the beginning of the race with a issue on the monocoque). The main problem was coming from the rods.
So, for the Toyota, I am wondering about the effect of the G's of shocks in the Eau Rouge on the engine.

[Acid09]

Didn't Peugeot opt to switch to new rods made of a different (lighter) material before the race week? I seem to recall something like that.

[PascaLM]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Didn't Peugeot opt to switch to new rods made of a different (lighter) material before the race week? I seem to recall something like that.

Yes they did, but I don't know if they chose them one week before the race. The rods were in titanium if I can recall, lighter and supposed to be as reliable as steel. Or au contraire, were they too strong for pistons or something ? We will never know.
Maybe Toyota have tried to find new powerful solutions too but not reliable as expected.

[TF110]

We'll probably never know if their reason is officially why the engines had issues. But from every interview since, they seem nothing but positive. That could be looked at in two ways I guess. They're deflecting it because they don't want to focus on such a negative, or the issues aren't that serious and they expect even more pace?

[godlameroso]

The fact they were burning oil leads me to believe the problem was an oil return line from the turbo leaking into the turbine.

[chernaudi]

Hearing that the problem on the 6 was electrical, I did originally think crank trigger sensor. But hearing that bottoming out at Eau Rouge may've had something to do with it does suggest that either maybe the block was getting distorted (I don't see why it would, though), or maybe the sensor is sensitive to shocks and vibrations. Or it could just be a random failure of an electronic bit, the thing that causes 90% of problems with modern LM style prototype and GT cars.

At least no other WEC tracks have a corner with the combination of speed, compression and rapid direction change as Eau Rouge/Raidillon.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Hearing that the problem on the 6 was electrical, I did originally think crank trigger sensor. But hearing that bottoming out at Eau Rouge may've had something to do with it does suggest that either maybe the block was getting distorted (I don't see why it would, though), or maybe the sensor is sensitive to shocks and vibrations. Or it could just be a random failure of an electronic bit, the thing that causes 90% of problems with modern LM style prototype and GT cars.

At least no other WEC tracks have a corner with the combination of speed, compression and rapid direction change as Eau Rouge/Raidillon.

Esses at Le Mans does carry some similarities as they are carrying high speeds, three changes in direction (more if there is a GT to be overtaken) and some compression. The speed and compression isn't as extreme as Eau Rouge/Raidillon, but could be enough to tricker the same issue when exposed to it over 24 hours.

[Artur]

Speed wise, the Porsche curves are not far from Eau Rouge. LMP1s reach Eau Rouge at around 280kmh and, because of the uphill, have it's speed dropped to around 270kmh despite the full throttle.

The most demanding bits(the righthanders and the last lefthander) of the Porsche Cuvers are done at around 260, 250 and 240kmh, respectively.

But these corners are all flat, so there is basically no vertical compression, unlike Eau Rouge which puts a sudden(maybe this can be the point that really matters in this case) extra 1G on the car(almost 1000kg)

If high compression was the problem, then it should be ok for Toyota at LM, but I'm not sure that was really the issue with it...... Let's hope they fix it, anyway, because it will make LM very boring if cars start retiring early in the race.

[ederss7]

Through the Porsche curves they can reach 280km/h. Fastest average through the whole section is 270km/h set in 2013 by Audi.
The only parts of the Le Mans circuit that could have "similar" effect like Eau Rouge would be the Esses and Indianapolis. But LM also has public roads, which in theory is bumpier.

[GT6]

Well the public roads used at le mans are actually not bad, having driven on them many times over the last 30 years you notice an incredible difference when you go from purely public roads to the stretches used in the race, the camber is perfect and they seem perfectly smooth, i know they are not perfect but these stretches are obviously maintained well above the standards of normal roads

[TF110]

I noticed they mostly avoided running the curbs aggressively at Spa except for Eau Rouge and the exit of Stavelot. The #1 Porsche was chasing the #5 and used nearly every curb, but Buemi was staying mostly on the black stuff.

[Japanese Samurai]

Toyota Gazoo Racing held an explanatory meeting of media for LM24.
http://www.as-web.jp/sports-car/17061
Toyota announced a provocative catchphrase.

Toyota, Are you satisfied with the status of the loser?
Toyota which is an origin of a hybrid car can't be defeated by rivals any more.
We can't make hybrid car owners beyond 8,000,000 disappointed.
Cross the wall! Grab the title!

[Japanese Samurai]

Hisatake Murata says that thermal efficiency of TS050 engine reaches nearly 45 %.

http://jp.motorsport.com/wec/news/we...%81%84-738487/

[gustavobamba]

Well well well... They seem very confident this year for Le Mans.

Their LM package should be very good!!!!!!

[Japanese Samurai]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Hisatake Murata says that thermal efficiency of TS050 engine reaches nearly 45 %.

http://jp.motorsport.com/wec/news/we...%81%84-738487/

Car Watch reports that Murata says that thermal efficiency is about 40%.
http://car.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/...21_758513.html

[kvenom]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Car Watch reports that Murata says that thermal efficiency is about 40%.
http://car.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/...21_758513.html

If I'm reading the translation right the TS050 engine has cylinder deactivation during yellow flags and virtual safety cars?

[kvenom]

Wish there was some scale/measurement for this chart:

[Japanese Samurai]

Originally Posted by kvenom

If I'm reading the translation right the TS050 engine has cylinder deactivation during yellow flags and virtual safety cars?

Yes. Single bank pause is introduced.
And this is drag reduction chart.

[sssssssss]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Toyota Gazoo Racing held an explanatory meeting of media for LM24.
http://www.as-web.jp/sports-car/17061
Toyota announced a provocative catchphrase.

Toyota, Are you satisfied with the status of the loser?
Toyota which is an origin of a hybrid car can't be defeated by rivals any more.
We can't make hybrid car owners beyond 8,000,000 disappointed.
Cross the wall! Grab the title!

this time might be their best opportunity ever, their chances are better than they ever were, although they're competing against the two most successful brands in the history of le mans, because both of the germans seem surprisingly not prepared this year and they also only have two cars each. they either take le mans for granted too much because of winning so much, or have simply been cut down really badly on funding from their parent company. i can see no other explanation. but anyway, maybe they'll come back stronger at le mans.