'10 LMS Round 1 • Castellet • April 9-11 - Page 27

AndrewF31 · 19 Apr 2010, 19:43 (Ref:2676091)

Thanks for the cool photos Boesel.
Really nice Spyker, indeed. It's a really refreshing looking car in the middle of all those Porsches and Ferraris, plus it comes from those wonderful Low Countries!

Didn't know the Applewood Seven FLM is Gulf colored. Reminds me of the Barazi cars from a few years ago. I never get enough of the Gulf colors. Another good reason to go to Algarve, even if the Aston LMP doesn't go.

I really hope they go back to Paul Ricard next year. It's a nice way to start the season with a Le Mans style track.

CarolK · 19 Apr 2010, 21:08 (Ref:2676162)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewF31

I really hope they go back to Paul Ricard next year. It's a nice way to start the season with a Le Mans style track.

us too - that circuit is fantastic and having the race 8 hours was great, we really liked it - opening race next season would be absolutely perfect!

pdxracefan · 21 Apr 2010, 03:53 (Ref:2677068)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin90

I think so as top speed was an issue at le mans last year, but they've been consistently quicker than the 2010 spec peugeot (which was running low down-force as well) in every single session this weekend.

compared to le mans last year
Peugeot at Le Mans: 340.86 kph
Peugeot Paul ricard: 325 kph

Audi R15 at Le Mans: 329.92 kph
Audi R15+ at Paul Ricard: 331 kph (it ran 335 in free practice 3)

Sure this isn't entirely comparable because the oreca car isn't a works peugeot, but it is a 2010-spec car.

How you like me now?

CTD · 21 Apr 2010, 09:02 (Ref:2677177)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxracefan

How you like me now?

Huh?.
You posted the same thing which makes no sense in 2 threads!

chernaudi · 21 Apr 2010, 11:29 (Ref:2677249)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin90

I think so as top speed was an issue at le mans last year, but they've been consistently quicker than the 2010 spec peugeot (which was running low down-force as well) in every single session this weekend.

compared to le mans last year
Peugeot at Le Mans: 340.86 kph
Peugeot Paul ricard: 325 kph

Audi R15 at Le Mans: 329.92 kph
Audi R15+ at Paul Ricard: 331 kph (it ran 335 in free practice 3)

Sure this isn't entirely comparable because the oreca car isn't a works peugeot, but it is a 2010-spec car.

Even if the speed was 332km/h, that still equals over 205mph, which the old R8 and R10 had no trouble hitting at Le Mans in the past running moderately high levels of downforce compared to other competitors(Dome, Courage, for example). All we have to do remember 2007 at Le Mans, where Audi had a consistant(albeit slight) straightline speed advantage over the 908s(which were detuned for reliability, while mechanically the R10s were virtually bulletproof by then), and still had a big cornering and braking advantage.

If Audi can equal the 908s in straightline speed or at least be in the ballpark, but still have a braking and cornering advantage with a car that's easier to drive(compliant suspension) and easier on it's tires(experience gained with suspension work and with the old channel car being able to double stint at PLM without difficulty), Peugeot might be in trouble at LM, since Audi has committed an all out assult, while Peugeot's 2010 cars are slightly updated 2009 cars, which had some potential relaiblity problems at LM(baked clutches and brakes, while reportedly Audi was still fairly healthy in those areas), and have been a bit hit or miss reliablity-wise this year(the Oreca car losing an engine in an edurance test and the problems at Paul Ricard).

Martin90 · 21 Apr 2010, 17:39 (Ref:2677420)

Based on what we've seen in Paul Ricard I'd say Audi will be up (if not quicker) than the peugeots in a straight line. I expected the peugeot to be quicker to be very honest, considering the length of the straight. But if they can't keep up with the Audis here I'm not quite sure how they even want to match the speed (in terms of top speed) of the Audis at le mans. Audi increased its top speed in a straight line (albeit the new regulations) compared to last year whereas the peugeot has significantly less top speed.

Purist · 21 Apr 2010, 20:22 (Ref:2677519)

I really don't think the ORECA car is a match for the factory Peugeots, so I just don't think we really know yet what the relative pace is against the Audi.

This could be rather funny if AMR show up at LM and trump both the diesels on the Mulsanne.

Martin90 · 21 Apr 2010, 21:00 (Ref:2677549)

I agree in terms of lap-time, but I don't think there will be a large gap in top speed between the Oreca peugeot and the factory cars, especially since the Oreca car is 2010-spec as well.

The diesels get up to speed quicker, but AMR may very well have the fastest car (in terms of top speed) at le mans!

Purist · 21 Apr 2010, 23:31 (Ref:2677607)

Well, the Audi managed either 331 or 332km/h at Paul Ricard. That 335km/h was actually turned in by the factory Aston, as someone mentioned a bit earlier in the thread.

The opening lap at Le Mans could be very interesting. As it was, last year, the Astons were harassing the #3 Audi in the early going at LM. If the factory Astons are in the slipstream of the diesels when they hit the Mulsanne on the opening lap, look out!

Holt · 21 Apr 2010, 23:51 (Ref:2677618)

Quote:

Originally Posted by purist

I really don't think the ORECA car is a match for the factory Peugeots, so I just don't think we really know yet what the relative pace is against the Audi.

I agree.

I went and looked back over the timing and scoring and it appears McNish only really beat Sarrazin in traffic.

Sarrazin was able to hold the gap steady at 8-10 seconds for the first 30 laps until the pit incident.

Here is a breakdown of Sarrazin vs MFcNish laps 4 - 28. McNish was faster overall, but Sarrazxin was quicker in about 1 of 3 of the early laps. As you can see the lead was mostly due to McNish's driving in traffic, he had 5 laps where he put 2 seconds on Sarrazin which was of course due to traffic driving ability, but the other laps were close. Now this was just the fistr stint, I'll study the rest of the race later.

LAP 4 +.532
LAP 5 -.063
LAP 6 -.154
LAP 7 +2 sec+
LAP 8 +2 sec+
LAP 9 +.434
LAP 10 +.884
LAP 11 +.111
LAP 12 2 sec+
LAP 13 +.178
LAP 14 -.036
LAP 15 2 sec +
LAP 16 +.475
LAP 17 -.423
LAP 18 -.404
LAP 19 -.871
LAP 20 -1.509
LAP 21 +1.916
LAP 22 -.241
LAP 23 +2sec +
LAP 24 -1.367
LAP 25 +0.12
LAP 26 -.843
LAP 27 -.616
LAP 28 +.159

The Badger · 21 Apr 2010, 23:57 (Ref:2677621)

I got a feeling that the Oreca/Aim will throw a cat amongst the pidgeons .

Whats the deal with the rumoured "new" chassis from Prodrive for 2011 ?

cmk · 22 Apr 2010, 04:22 (Ref:2677665)

Pending lots of things. Like confirmation. And a budget.

Purist · 22 Apr 2010, 05:17 (Ref:2677673)

The tricky thing in even comparing top-end speeds is the corners leading onto the straights.

The hard right at L'Ecole on Paul Ricard is slow, and the following esse of Ste Baume is flat-out, so virtually inconsequential for the LMPs. In contrast to this, Tetre Rouge is quite fast, but not flat, and leads directly onto the first and longest portion of the Mulsanne. So, if the ORECA car has inferior handling to the factory Peugeots, it will be more telling on the Mulsanne than is the case on the Mistral.

I do hope the AMR crew can make a race of it at LM, at least for a while. Then again, the DBR9 V12 is a reliable lump, so who knows. Unfortunately, for the ORECA AIM 01, it's a spyder while the Lola-Astons are coupes, so my money on the petrol cars still has to go with the Astons. I don't think the Rebellions have as good a shot on pace as some probably will contend, because their performance at Le Castellet showed a definite lack of top-end speed compared to the quickest runners on the Mistral.

Mal · 22 Apr 2010, 08:08 (Ref:2677726)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holt

I agree.

I went and looked back over the timing and scoring and it appears McNish only really beat Sarrazin in traffic.

Sarrazin was able to hold the gap steady at 8-10 seconds for the first 30 laps until the pit incident.

Here is a breakdown of Sarrazin vs MFcNish laps 4 - 28. McNish was faster overall, but Sarrazxin was quicker in about 1 of 3 of the early laps. As you can see the lead was mostly due to McNish's driving in traffic, he had 5 laps where he put 2 seconds on Sarrazin which was of course due to traffic driving ability, but the other laps were close. Now this was just the fistr stint, I'll study the rest of the race later.

LAP 4 +.532
LAP 5 -.063
LAP 6 -.154
LAP 7 +2 sec+
LAP 8 +2 sec+
LAP 9 +.434
LAP 10 +.884
LAP 11 +.111
LAP 12 2 sec+
LAP 13 +.178
LAP 14 -.036
LAP 15 2 sec +
LAP 16 +.475
LAP 17 -.423
LAP 18 -.404
LAP 19 -.871
LAP 20 -1.509
LAP 21 +1.916
LAP 22 -.241
LAP 23 +2sec +
LAP 24 -1.367
LAP 25 +0.12
LAP 26 -.843
LAP 27 -.616
LAP 28 +.159

Its interesting as if there is one thing that sets Allan apart from his quickest competitors and team-mates it is his ability to get through traffic quickly. He has shown countless times and won many races by being quicker through traffic I wonder what his secret is?

HORNDAWG · 22 Apr 2010, 08:12 (Ref:2677728)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mal

Its interesting as if there is one thing that sets Allan apart from his quickest competitors and team-mates it is his ability to get through traffic quickly. He has shown countless times and won many races by being quicker through traffic I wonder what his secret is?

Boulders!!!!

L.P.

Victor_RO · 22 Apr 2010, 09:15 (Ref:2677756)

I think he has a secret switch somewhere inside his right foot which enables him to make the car narrower for a fraction of a second...

The Badger · 22 Apr 2010, 12:40 (Ref:2677838)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mal

I wonder what his secret is?

And rather large set of balls I reckon !!!

Mal · 23 Apr 2010, 09:46 (Ref:2678310)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

And rather large set of balls I reckon !!!

Yes true but others have that and end up in the wall. He must have tremendous judgement and instinct as he is the quickest through traffic and yet very rarely gets into trouble doing it.

chernaudi · 23 Apr 2010, 10:34 (Ref:2678336)

True about Allan and how he made the 10+ second gap, but it seemed like the R15 got faster during the race, espcially Dindo's last stint before switching to the rain tires he was consistantly faster than the 908 and set the races's fastest lap by over .6 of a second over the best that Sarazzin was able to do. Granted, one would believe that the factory cars would be faster, but since the Oreca 908 is the same spec as the factory cars and much of the Peugeot Sport brain trust was in the Oreca pit, it can be argued that the factory cars won't be much faster.

But what I wonder is did the Audi get faster as the track rubbered in, or did the Pug slow down, since it seemed that the Audi did get quicker as the race wore on judged by Dindo's run during his final stint(and Allan's posting at his site and Speed TV.com seem to back that up), and the Pug was trying to finish as high as possible, so they were trying to push. If the Audi got faster during the race, and was already on par with the Peugeot, this could be trouble at Spa and LM if the same scinerio plays out and if the Audis are relaltively bullet proof(which with the mechancials being sound and the R15 at Paul Ricard being involed in at least two contact situlations-at the start by bumping the 908 and above all else being side-swiped by the Signature Plus Lola in a fast corner, not to mention surviving a 24 and another 24-30 hour endurance test at Sebring).

Lola T70 · 23 Apr 2010, 10:59 (Ref:2678351)

The Peugeot was not a complete Le Mans 2010 spec car.

chernaudi · 23 Apr 2010, 13:03 (Ref:2678413)

Considering that Peugeot and Oreca themselves have stated that the Oreca 908 is a full 2010 spec car, we can't argue. However, it can be debated what the differences between 2009 and 2010 cars are. It seems that the '10 Pugs have been little updated at all compared to what Audi had done in the past to the R8 or R10. Maybe Peugeot sees 2010 as a lame duck year or believe that the 908s will be on par with the new R15, especially considering that Peugeot have reportedly stated an intent on entering the LMIC now.

Lola T70 · 23 Apr 2010, 14:39 (Ref:2678476)

they had their 2009 engine at Le Castellet

chernaudi · 23 Apr 2010, 16:46 (Ref:2678557)

Well then, was Peugeot running 2009 engines at Sebring? If so, maybe the Oreca car detonating an engine during a private test might have spooked Peugeot. And aside from electronics upgrades to counter the 3% power reduction, how is the basic engine any different, as Audi has done similar work. And a year old engine, even with rules changes, doesn't make a car .6 of a second slower-a lot of that is handling and braking, too.

Maybe the 908 being a 4 year old design based on having a lot of motor may be showing it's age, considering that Paul Ricard should be suited to the Pug and that Audi hadn't tested the R15 there in nearly a year and that much of that data was irreleveant with the R15 Plus's extensive facelift.

Lola T70 · 23 Apr 2010, 16:51 (Ref:2678564)

Just saying it was not everything that the 2010 Peugeot has in it's pocket and we will see a more true picture in Spa.

chernaudi · 23 Apr 2010, 17:05 (Ref:2678573)

Well, then it's fair to say that Peugeot is just using Oreca this year to be a back-door entry for the LMS since Peugeot's factory team can't run the full LMS season and do the LMIC and Le Mans?

And even if the Oreca car was only 95-99% of what the factory cars are now, could a lack of development hurt the factroy cars just as bad?

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