ALMS 2005 Entries

[Fogelhund]

Originally posted by tblincoe
he could purchase two C60s, but that would be the dumbest move in motorsports history IMO

On the other hand, not racing something in LMP1 would be the dumbest move in motorsports history, even if that is a C60.

[tblincoe]

Originally posted by Fogelhund
On the other hand, not racing something in LMP1 would be the dumbest move in motorsports history, even if that is a C60.

something called common sense does come into play though... if there aren't any viable solutions for running a LMP1 car in 2005 because of the regulation changes, you don't go out and waste a million dollars on a pair of cars that you can only race competitively for a year on one side of the pond. if you must, go ahead and wait a year before a customer car like the L70 is available. who knows, maybe Yves can build more a factory car, test it, revise it, then build two customer cars by Sebring, but i highly doubt that will happen.

[Fogelhund]

Sometimes common sense isn't part of the equation, and you've gotta do what you've gotta do. This appears to be one of those times. If this is the case, then there has already been a few months lead to work on this.

[tblincoe]

the ALMS did just fine with its LMP grid this year, and it will have the same grid this year but add a second Champion Audi and a Creation Zytek for select races. i think we can wait a year...

[Fogelhund]

Originally posted by tblincoe
the ALMS did just fine with its LMP grid this year, and it will have the same grid this year but add a second Champion Audi and a Creation Zytek for select races. i think we can wait a year...

The ALMS LMP grid was not fine this year. Even by optimistic standards it was not going to change next year. Do you think that might have ramifications?

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...ighlight=maraj

Put 2+2 together and what comes up?

[jhansen]

He could lease a pair of C-60's also. There is no rule that he has to buy them. And I agree with Fogelhund, the P1 grid was not adequate this year. The series needs to improve next year in terms of entries. And P1 and GT1 are the two areas that need improvement.

[tblincoe]

are you kidding me??? there was a definite challenge from Dyson's Lolas on every single track this year, that can't be argued. did you watch any of the races? of course the Champion Audi won the majority of the races due to the technical gremlins of the B01/60, but the final results don't tell the entire story of a race. would you tell me that the LMES was a dud because Veloqx won the majority of the races? i think not... the ALMS can and will survive throughout the midseason races next year with 4-5 LMP1 cars (2 Champion, 2 Dyson, maybe 1 Intersport). argue all you want but the fact of the matter is that Panoz has financial common sense and he won't throw his money away just for a short term solution. he didn't do it last year and he won't do it next year.

[Fogelhund]

tblincoe - Well, if one wanted to argue, for the sake of arguing, it could be pointed out that Dyson wasn't competitive at all at Laguna....

Having said that, it is but a tangent to my main point anyway. Did you even read the link? What did Maraj publicly state? Is it your belief he changed his mind, or do you think he knows something you don't yet? Think about that man.

[marcush.]

I thought the Intersport B1/60 tub was written off lately..
so I don´t think that car will return .
But don´t write off Creation with the DBA .these guys will come back with a even stronger package in 05 .they might not make it to all events ,right but sure they will come back to plm and laguna this time raring to have a go again.

[tblincoe]

Originally posted by Fogelhund
tblincoe - Well, if one wanted to argue, for the sake of arguing, it could be pointed out that Dyson wasn't competitive at all at Laguna....

Having said that, it is but a tangent to my main point anyway. Did you even read the link? What did Maraj publicly state? Is it your belief he changed his mind, or do you think he knows something you don't yet? Think about that man.

wait, what are you arguing?? are you trying to tell me that there is the possibility of Champion running two R-GTs next year? are you serious? do i really have to go into why that won't happen?

first off the R-GT has failed to show its potential as a customer GT1 car under ACO regs, and Champion won't take a project like that on. also, Champion has CONFIRMED a two car R8 effort for next year, so I fail to see what you're talking about... :confused:

as for the B01/60, yes it has been written of marcush, you are correct. however there is the possibility of Intersport running a B05/40 as a LMP1 rather than an LMP2...

[marcush.]

the lola b05/40 has not even turned a wheel on the road asfarasiknow and intersport is planning to convert the car to LMP1 ???? I´m sure they had their share of car conversions....

[Fogelhund]

No, it was not my implication that Champion would run the R-GT. We'll just have to agree that you have failed to see what I am suggesting.

[tblincoe]

Originally posted by Fogelhund
No, it was not my implication that Champion would run the R-GT. We'll just have to agree that you have failed to see what I am suggesting.

how about you quit being a jerk and explain what you are suggesting because no where in your post or in the link you provided is there any clear evidence of you suggesting anything else. Maraj isn't as quick to jump to a rash decision as you are and i think he understands that the regs are causing a transition period for the LMPs. he is running two R8s in 2005, and as for 2006, i wouldn't be suprised to see him running a two-car R9 effort in the ALMS. Champion is THE Audi team in the US right now and it makes no sense to screw that up.

as for the B05/40, it will be homologated for both the LMP1 and LMP2 classes so nothing would need to be "converted" other than using a larger engine (i.e. the Judd GV5 instead of the XV or KV) and adding ballast... Lola said that it was designed to be competitive in either class.

[Fogelhund]

I'm sorry you to take me to be a jerk. I've said all that I can unfortunately, and really I've given you all the information that is needed. Let me help out one more time.

According to Autosport Champion will switch to GTS with a R-GT if the LMP1 grid does not improve in 2005.

'My fallback is to stay within the family and race the Lambo GTS. I'd rather do that than compete against a load of second rate amateurs' from Dave Maraj, in todays Autosport.

Simply put, he stated he wouldn't run in LMP1 unless the grids improved for LMP1 in 05'. So, not only do we know he is staying in LMP1, but he improved his efforts to two cars. Connecting the dots, you can see that there will be more cars for LMP1 next year, as a necessity. Does the Panoz/Courage thing make more sense suddenly?

Does this make more sense now?

On the other hand, not racing something in LMP1 would be the dumbest move in motorsports history, even if that is a C60.

[jhansen]

tblincoe...I never implied that the racing was poor in 2004. You better re-read my post. I am very passionate about the ALMS and support the series 100%. I indeed understand that the final result does not speak for some of the awesome action we saw this year. But I do think that it is fair to say that the LMP1 grid (or number of P1 cars) was not up to snuff for 2004. And I hope that it improves in 2005.

As for Champion, I believe they are the best Audi team out there bar none. Perhaps only the factory supported Joest team was better. Herbert said he thought they prepared the cars better than Veloqx. But that doesn't mean they'll get the R9 in its first season. Maybe after the debut season. Remember how Audi did it last time. Although Audi could use Champion as the works team this time around. I do recall Maraj saying he would run the GTS class if the P1 competition was not up to snuff. But I don't think it was numbers he was looking at. He just wants solid competitors.

[tblincoe]

i'm sorry i called you a jerk fogelhound, i was just annoyed and i really didn't mean it...

but as far as your points go, the quote you used was what i was referring to in my previous post. maraj made that statement a long while back, and since then A LOT has happened, most notably the implosion of the Murcielago R-GT program. do you really believe that Maraj is still looking at the Lambos as an effective platform to go racing with in 2006? esp. against the likes of the MC-12, DBR-9, C6-R, and S7-R? i don't think so.

Champion has more than enough competition on its hands next year from the Dyson boys, the B01/60 is faster than the R8 on the majority of the ALMS tracks, and the R8 often won on reliability. what if Dyson gets some luck and finds some reliability next season? whole different ball game.

as for 2006 in regards to Champion's role with the next Audi LMP, it is my belief that Champion will get two cars to run in the ALMS, and Joest will get two cars to run in the LMES. the LMES creates a new situation as far as factory teams, because there isn't just one series to run in now. I'm sure that Audi/Joest could run both series with one team if needed, but with a strong team such as Champion in the US already, why spend the money and time flying cars, crews, equipment, etc. back and forth across the pond? It makes sense to me to have two seperate teams for the seperate series, and allowing for a total of four cars run by both teams to run at LeMans. I'm sure Ullrich has been in contact with Maraj regarding this matter and the expansion of Champion to a two car effort only strengthens Champions roots in LMP racing with Audi in 2006.

[simon c]

Joest R9s in 2006 - at the expense of DTM, or alongside?

For how long is the commitment of Audi to DTM?

[Nordic]

I think that depends who joins when GM quit the DTM.

There is no doubt that the DTM gets greater TV coverage in Europe than sportscars or the FIA, but if it all falls apart in 06 then the R9 should become more of a priority.

If Audi do build an R9, then I am sure it would be run from the factory for its first year, so Champion would need to run the R8 for at least one extra year.

[jhansen]

But I dont see the R8's running in 2006. They'll just be so heavily restricted that it wouldn't be worth it. Especially at Le Mans.

[tblincoe]

the R9 project will be run in conjunction with DTM (if DTM is still around in 06)... Audi ran both programs at the same time before and can do it again in the future, but that would mean that Joest would go back to the Sportscar program.

As for a "factory program" all that entails is works engineers, money, etc. going to a team. Joest's outfit is essentially the same beast as Maraj's, the only difference is that Joest ran the initial "factory" effort with the R8. look at Joest in 2003...

Ullrich has also expressed that Champion is considered the #1 customer team by Audi Sport, even over the likes of Joest. it is well within Audi's means to run two "works" teams: Joest in Europe, and Champion in the US.

as for the R8 running another year: not possible. the car will not be legal to run in 2006 so thats not an option for Champion, thus the likelyhood that Champion will get a new Audi in 2006.

[jhansen]

It will be interesting to see how they run the R9 development program. The R8R ran only Sebring and Le Mans in 1999. They ran the 2000 spec R8 at Sebring, Le Mans and the latter half of the 2000 season with the R8R showing up at the races between Sebring and Le Mans if I recall. If they decide to contest the entire 2006 season with the R9 then it should be testing a lot in the later half of 2005.

[paul-collins]

Current form R8s will not be legal in 2006. No word has been heard of an "hybrid" R8 nor of another rules extension. The point is currently moot.

Either Audi debuts the R(>8) by next year or they withdraw from LMP1 competition.

[tblincoe]

Originally posted by paul-collins
Current form R8s will not be legal in 2006. No word has been heard of an "hybrid" R8 nor of another rules extension. The point is currently moot.

Either Audi debuts the R(>8) by next year or they withdraw from LMP1 competition.

hahaha i love it, i'm definitely referring to the next Audi LMP as the R>8 from now on!!!

Ullrich has stated that a Hybrid R8 will not be made, and i agree that it will be interesting to see how Audi runs the R>8 program... they have a lot of options as far as teams, series, drivers, etc. i also think they have a responsibility to give Champion cars for 2006 due to the way in which Champion has carried the Audi banner over the last couple of years. but where does that leave Joest?

we should know more when Audi announces its motorsport plans at the Assen Motorshow... when is the date for that again?

[gwyllion]

Originally posted by tblincoe

we should know more when Audi announces its motorsport plans at the Assen Motorshow... when is the date for that again?

Essen Motorshow is November 26 till December 5.

[tblincoe]

Originally posted by gwyllion
Essen Motorshow is November 26 till December 5.

ughhh so long to wait! i think the most important potential news would be the announcement of the plans for the LMES next year as the situation there is up in the air after Veloqx and Goh quit their R8 programs.