The never ending Toyota return to Le Mans (LMP1) Saga

[kurski]

Andrea Caldarelli test Toyota LMP1 car?

[kaivo]

God, im in love now

[Deleted]

Overhead shot makes it look somewhat sexy...

[evanPGH]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

TS030, capacitors, maybe four wheel drive, lots of data here: http://bit.ly/wBnTRy
Shameless plug sorry!

The car looks superb, lots of F1 cues and data. Its really gonna fly, can't wait to see it run in the morning

Awesome post!

Thanks!

[Livininthinair]

Originally Posted by evanPGH

Awesome post!

Thanks!

Everyone should read the Racecar Engineering link, great info and answers some questions we all had. Getting a better perspective of the overall design makes it look much better than the original "leaked" pictures.

+ "all new and as yet unseen v8 engine"

[evanPGH]

Originally Posted by Livininthinair

Everyone should read the Racecar Engineering link, great info and answers some questions we all had. Getting a better perspective of the overall design makes it look much better than the original "leaked" pictures.

+ "all new and as yet unseen v8 engine"

Completely agree. After seeing the whole thing I think it's a pretty good looking car. The headlights are growing on me and they're definitely unique.

Even the massive dorsal fin doesn't look too out of place given the proportions of the car.

I love how the cockpit is less "bubble" like than other prototypes we've seen, it just sorta flows with the rest of the car.

I'd also love to see the lightning bolts make it to the final race livery - nice touch.

[R4z3rw33n]

Originally Posted by Livininthinair

Everyone should read the Racecar Engineering link, great info and answers some questions we all had. Getting a better perspective of the overall design makes it look much better than the original "leaked" pictures.

+ "all new and as yet unseen v8 engine"

I could have sworn there was an initial statement which suggested a revised version of the TMG 3.4L V8 (used by Rebellion) would be employed - evidently, that isn't the case.

This is all beginning to look very professional. Can't say I'd expected any less, though.

[Simmi]

I love it! Can not wait to see this turn a wheel in anger at LM and I'm SO thankful that there will be two of them. Sense has prevailed.

Also thanks to Sam for the great article on RE.

[Victor_RO]

I wonder when they'll have to actually pass the ACO's "hybrid" test of 450 m at 60 kph under electric power only.

[Livininthinair]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

I wonder when they'll have to actually pass the ACO's "hybrid" test of 450 m at 60 kph under electric power only.

LeMans "test day" - like Hope last year I would think

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Livininthinair

Lemans test day - like Hope last year I would think

Yeah, but the test day last year was in April. This year it's 2 weeks before Le Mans and the Toyota is scheduled to run at Spa as well.

[gustavobamba]

The car looks amazing...

If I can i will punche in the face the guy ´s responsable for Peugeot absence.

Seriously now, the aero features between the front fender and the tub are clearly an interim car ( see pics in Racecar Engineering".

I thought, for the hybrid system, which was not allowed to 4WD, but...

The Press release clearly demonstrates an invitation to other Japanese brands to join them, and a challenge to AUDI dominance

[TF110]

Good to hear that WURZ is comparing this to the 908, and 908 Hybrid. He says it compared to the 908 it produces good downforce already, and there is MORE TO COME. Amazing. On top of it he says that the hybrid system is a little bigger but can store much more power than the 908 Hy, and is much more potent. All good info, plus the car is basically still in roll out trim. But the front splitter has been tested in two variations. This is shaping up to be a good car. Can't wait till Spa.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

I thought, for the hybrid system, which was not allowed to 4WD, but...

4WD is allowed, but only if it means that solely the engine drives the rear wheels and solely the electric motors drive the front wheels.

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

4WD is allowed, but only if it means that solely the engine drives the rear wheels and solely the electric motors drive the front wheels.

Thanks

[Simmi]

The real question is are there any members on the forum willing to step forward and join TF110 as the 'Toyota army' - defending them no matter what so we can resume the entertaining battles the Audi/Pug era gave us...

[evanPGH]

Originally Posted by TF110

Good to hear that WURZ is comparing this to the 908, and 908 Hybrid. He says it compared to the 908 it produces good downforce already, and there is MORE TO COME. Amazing.

I was very excited about this too. The 908s were usually the quickest through the twisties at La Sarthe so for him to compare the grip of the TS030 to the early 908 is a great sign.

[TF110]

He drove the latest 908, but also drove the Hybrid as well. He said that Toyota's system is more powerful, if but a little heavier. 500kj limit making Toyota upset! They wanted at least 1MJ from their Super Capacitor. I wonder, by putting the system in the 'passenger seat' would this allow for better/even weight distribution since the driver is probably equally as heavy as the Hybrid storage system? And this shot right here looks VERY similar to the TS020-

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Simmi

The real question is are there any members on the forum willing to step forward and join TF110 as the 'Toyota army' - defending them no matter what so we can resume the entertaining battles the Audi/Pug era gave us...

I'll surely be rooting for them, the last thing we need is Audi running circles around everybody.

[alexkiller8]

because of budget and know-how, i had no doubts that toyota was able to build a car with a top aero efficency, maybe even better than audi r18 one. But the problem for petrol powered car is always the same... the engine! even if the rv8kLM engine born as a mid-high rev engine (the "standard" rv8k is a high rev engine for formula nippon), it will have a torque that is much more less than what audi engine can release (i have serious doubts that rv8k can release more than 525Nm, the audi/peugeot in 2011 were able to pass 850Nm). This actualy makes the difference at LM and in other track with high medium speed! for this reason i don't expect that toyota will beat audi cars at LM until the diesel engines ban.

[tyronnezx]

Man this car looks so menacing. i wasnt into those headlights, hopefully they will change over the course but right now they may as well have called it sentinel prime lol. its kinda growing in me. do you guys see the formula one links in there? i thought at one point that the steering wheel came straight from from the TF109 or the 108

[evanPGH]

Originally Posted by Simmi

The real question is are there any members on the forum willing to step forward and join TF110 as the 'Toyota army' - defending them no matter what so we can resume the entertaining battles the Audi/Pug era gave us...

I'm in.

Originally Posted by TF110

He drove the latest 908, but also drove the Hybrid as well. He said that Toyota's system is more powerful, if but a little heavier. 500kj limit making Toyota upset! They wanted at least 1MJ from their Super Capacitor. I wonder, by putting the system in the 'passenger seat' would this allow for better/even weight distribution since the driver is probably equally as heavy as the Hybrid storage system? And this shot right here looks VERY similar to the TS020-

Yes and yes. I was hoping this car would be the TS020's spiritual successor and I couldn't be happier.

[ais]

Very cool . Pleasant surprise to see an "all-new" V8. I figured that Toyota used the V8 last year merely for testing in the Rebellion cars and for data collection.

Also no surprise they are using supercapacitors. Using batteries absolutely makes no sense, and the Supra HV-R system used supercapacitors as well. We can only cross our fingers and hope one day Toyota makes a production hybrid sports car using supercapacitors.

Also no surprise that the bodywork is only temporary, and the car will be more evolved by the time it races in May. I believe the headlamp assembly is temporary as well, and we will see more evolved headlamps on the final car.

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

because of budget and know-how, i had no doubts that toyota was able to build a car with a top aero efficency, maybe even better than audi r18 one. But the problem for petrol powered car is always the same... the engine! even if the rv8kLM engine born as a mid-high rev engine (the "standard" rv8k is a high rev engine for formula nippon), it will have a torque that is much more less than what audi engine can release (i have serious doubts that rv8k can release more than 525Nm, the audi/peugeot in 2011 were able to pass 850Nm). This actualy makes the difference at LM and in other track with high medium speed! for this reason i don't expect that toyota will beat audi cars at LM until the diesel engines ban.

You're forgetting one huge aspect; regardless of how much torque the new 3.4L V8 produces, the KEY will be the hybrid system. The hybrid system in use here (based upon the one the Supra HV-R used) can fire off huge amounts of torque instantaneously to the wheels. Back when the Supra HV-R won the 24 hours of Tokachi race, competitors and industry people were taken by surprise. The Supra HV-R had unreal corner exit speeds, that none of the other cars in the field came close to.

Yes, the ACO has a limit in terms of how much energy that the hybrid system can output, but it is a high limit, and a significant amount of energy output at the limit if used optimally in corner exit situations.

Pascal Vasselon himself said that the key factors for their car will be aerodynamics and the hybrid system.

Toyota obviously knows they cannot match the Audi's torque with a petrol engine alone. But combined with their hybrid system, don't be surprised to see the Toyota exceed the Audi's torque, and also don't be surprised to see the Toyotas be the fastest cars in corner exiting at La Sarthe.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

because of budget and know-how, i had no doubts that toyota was able to build a car with a top aero efficency, maybe even better than audi r18 one. But the problem for petrol powered car is always the same... the engine! even if the rv8kLM engine born as a mid-high rev engine (the "standard" rv8k is a high rev engine for formula nippon), it will have a torque that is much more less than what audi engine can release (i have serious doubts that rv8k can release more than 525Nm, the audi/peugeot in 2011 were able to pass 850Nm). This actualy makes the difference at LM and in other track with high medium speed! for this reason i don't expect that toyota will beat audi cars at LM until the diesel engines ban.

HP makes for higher top speeds, Torque improves acceleration. A hybrid system gives instant torque, so it'll negate a lot of that advantage of a diesel. And obviously Toyota knows this. You speak of the RV8K, but this isn't that engine. Racecar Engineering article even says this is a brand new engine but same displacement and cylinder count. Why don't you hold off judgement until they actually race. Then we'll see if their Super Capacitors can challenge Audi's diesel.

[ais]

Very cool . Pleasant surprise to see an "all-new" V8. I figured that Toyota used the V8 last year merely for testing in the Rebellion cars and for data collection.

Also no surprise they are using supercapacitors. Using batteries absolutely makes no sense, and the Supra HV-R system used supercapacitors as well. We can only cross our fingers and hope one day Toyota makes a production hybrid sports car using supercapacitors.

Also no surprise that the bodywork is only temporary, and the car will be more evolved by the time it races in May. I believe the headlamp assembly is temporary as well, and we will see more evolved headlamps on the final car.

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

because of budget and know-how, i had no doubts that toyota was able to build a car with a top aero efficency, maybe even better than audi r18 one. But the problem for petrol powered car is always the same... the engine! even if the rv8kLM engine born as a mid-high rev engine (the "standard" rv8k is a high rev engine for formula nippon), it will have a torque that is much more less than what audi engine can release (i have serious doubts that rv8k can release more than 525Nm, the audi/peugeot in 2011 were able to pass 850Nm). This actualy makes the difference at LM and in other track with high medium speed! for this reason i don't expect that toyota will beat audi cars at LM until the diesel engines ban.

You're forgetting one huge aspect; regardless of how much torque the new 3.4L V8 produces, the KEY will be the hybrid system. The hybrid system in use here (based upon the one the Supra HV-R used) can fire off huge amounts of torque instantaneously to the wheels. Back when the Supra HV-R won the 24 hours of Tokachi race, competitors and industry people were taken by surprise. The Supra HV-R had unreal corner exit speeds, that none of the other cars in the field came close to.

Yes, the ACO has a limit in terms of how much energy that the hybrid system can output, but it is a very high limit, and a significant amount of energy output at the limit if used optimally in corner exit situations.

Pascal Vasselon himself said that the key factors for their car will be aerodynamics and the hybrid system.

Toyota obviously knows they cannot match the Audi's torque with a petrol alone. But combined with their hybrid system, don't be surprised to see the Toyota exceed the Audi's torque, and also don't be surprised to see the Toyota be the fastest car in corner exiting at La Sarthe.