The future of Corvette

[The Badger]

So , Horndawg ..... whats "not" tubeframe about that then ?

Get over it mate !!!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by David

Ju

The C6.R is an evolution of this chassis. (Do you suppose P&M would let me in to shoot the GT-2 chassis?)

David

Just get the engine specs. Don't thing the chassis is much different, just that IIRC it will use the Dana aluminum Z06 & ZR1 chassis as the base for the build.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by The Badger

So , Horndawg ..... whats "not" tubeframe about that then ?

Get over it mate !!!

Everything!
The safety structure/cage that is attached to the frame rails is made of tubing. But that is not a tube frame chassis! I have raced both tube framed cars and cars that were built off the original frame rails of a stock unit. They are not the same.

Knowledge is a tool that is often sharp at both ends.


L.P.

[The Badger]

Isnt it just .

I beg to differ .

[TWK]

"Tube frame" isn't even the correct terminology. What we are talking about is a "tubular space frame." By definition, a tubular superstructure on frame rails does not, and never has, qualified. Nor does a tubular structure attached to an underlying unibody structure. That describes most any race car structure.

In modern racing parlance, a "tube frame car" refers to one in which the suspension pick-ups of the original car are no longer associated with the original structure; in fact no part of the original structure is retained or needs to be. Examples are NASCAR Nationwide and Cup cars, and the Pontiacs and Mazdas competing in Grand Am. Historically, many of the IMSA GT cars were "tube frame" cars by those definitions. Rarely, a car is built by a manufacturer that is a tubular space frame in its original road-going form. BMW's M1 (1977-1980) was one.

Yelling "yes it is," doesn't make it so.

[Dead-Eye]

That’s aluminum for the Z06, and steel for the C6 and C6.R – the aluminum chassis of the Z06 hasn’t been homologated yet, though with production of about 7,000 this year, it could be.

So will they use the aluminium chassis for the GT2 car? If I remember correctly a VLN team went from an aluminium Z06 to a steel frame C6, claiming they had stability problems on the Nordschleife with the former.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by TWK

Yelling "yes it is," doesn't make it so.

I am well aware of that TWK ..... but you do enough winding up around here , let others have a go from time to time please .

Do you ever go fishing ..... ..... I know the bear does !!!

The frame is made from tube steel or not ? ..... In fact there is little else in that pic except tube steel ..... = tubeframe ?

I am not wrong , look for yourself ..... if something is wrong , its the definition of the word and not me .

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

So will they use the aluminium chassis for the GT2 car? If I remember correctly a VLN team went from an aluminium Z06 to a steel frame C6, claiming they had stability problems on the Nordschleife with the former.

Yes it will be aluminum.

This will be an all-new car, constructed by Pratt & Miller and, according to the regulations, will be based more upon production pieces that the current GT1 cars have been. Fehan did state that “we will be utilizing the aluminum chassis of the street car. We will be incorporating new advanced technology to integrate the steel cage to the aluminum frame, utilizing friction welding.”

L.P.

[dookie559]

Roll cage attached to framerails.

[Aslak Vind]

Jan Magnussen has now tested the testmule of the new GT2 Corvette. And he was happy to say, that it was way more fun to drive than the current GT1.

Jan has been testing the modified GT1 at Sebring for three full days, covering more than 1700 kilometers. The reduced downforce on the car made for a lot of oversteer, seeing the tiny Dane crossing his arms in the car through the bends.

Hopefully his employer will live through the winter

Something I posted in another thread, as it seems people doesnt read them both..

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by dookie559

Roll cage attached to framerails.

And???


L.P.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

Something I posted in another thread, as it seems people doesnt read them both..

That sounds promising . Id laugh my arse off if they beat Porsche & Fiat at Le Mans ..... imagine the sparks flying over that !!!

[Hugewally]

They've not going to be in GT2 at the '09 Le Mans.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by TWK

"Tube frame" isn't even the correct terminology. What we are talking about is a "tubular space frame." By definition, a tubular superstructure on frame rails does not, and never has, qualified. Nor does a tubular structure attached to an underlying unibody structure. That describes most any race car structure.

In modern racing parlance, a "tube frame car" refers to one in which the suspension pick-ups of the original car are no longer associated with the original structure; in fact no part of the original structure is retained or needs to be. Examples are NASCAR Nationwide and Cup cars, and the Pontiacs and Mazdas competing in Grand Am. Historically, many of the IMSA GT cars were "tube frame" cars by those definitions. Rarely, a car is built by a manufacturer that is a tubular space frame in its original road-going form. BMW's M1 (1977-1980) was one.

Yelling "yes it is," doesn't make it so.

OH MY, TWK, I think you brought a tear to my eye, bless you, bless you for such gearheadically correct rhetoric, bless you good sir!
Bob

[Bob Riebe]

I wonder, it was when Henry Ford was before some Washington empty suits and when it came to money matters, they mentioned how much he was spending on racing, and the very next day Ford was out of racing. period.

If GM is begging for money, I wonder what they will do if an empty suits mentions racing?

[Hugewally]

Sit silently with that deer in the headlight look?

[The Badger]

I know ..... im gobsmacked !!!

LG might be the only C6 in the ALMS next year . If the GM GT2 project disappears , I suspect their GT1 project will face the chop too ..... I dont even want to think about Le Mans .....

Its unthinkable to not have a works C6R thundering about there !!! ..... but we all know how much a proper factory Le Mans effort can cost !!!

And its only starting , according to the professionals ..... most of Europe has slipped into recession today , according to the beeb .

[JAG]

Are they the same professionals who couldn't see all this coming 6 months ago, yet the ordinary man on the street could?

As for GM, if they pull the Corvette program, you can officially sound the death knell for US manufacturer's in road racing, with no doubt a knock on effect to road car models, theres no doubt the GT1 program has dramatically improved the road car product.

[rich07]

Its very real unfortunately if GM gets help from the government, there's a big chance that any motorsport will be put on hold as part of any deal with the government. Lets hope that doesnt happen but its not looking good........

[Hugewally]

It doesn't really matter as they'll run out of money in a couple of months anyway.

[Aslak Vind]

Its a mystery to me, why GM dont kill off some of their numorous but poor selling brands?

[Dead-Eye]

I'm not sure that that would help. If they killed those brands, who knows if the people who bought them would move to another GM brand instead of, say, Ford or Toyota?
Killing them might cost them more in the end.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

Its a mystery to me, why GM dont kill off some of their numorous but poor selling brands?

"Brands," (as if, like some goods, the same product is simply rebranded, usually "down market" to serve the "house brand" marekt) doesn't begin to describe the problem, and there are those inside GM who agree with you.

Consider: Each of those Those "brands" is a whole cost structure. They each have design, marketing, advertising, and some manufacturing costs. That's billions of waste - nothing but. Oh, they can yelp that Buick is a big seller in China (and in Arizona retirement communities) but that doesn't change the fact that all the domestic market niches are served by Chevrolet and Cadillac. Add GMC for commercial trucks (can the GMC light trucks in favor of Chebby) and you've got it all.

The multiple brands also contribute greatly to the huge excess of dealers that GM has.

So what if Pontiac, Saturn, etc. buyers end up going elsewhere? You have to get the company to a sustainable size. Currently it is not.

Unfortunately, that ship may have sailed. Another example of dithering in some parallel universe while the company fails. GM was headed for big trouble even before this current debt crisis hit.

[Dead-Eye]

OK, I wasn't aware that all brands have their own infrastructure, especially since many of their products look like they just switched the badges out

[Fogelhund]

In addition to what TWK has stated, the major issue is simply the cost structure, that won't allow them to compete. Retiree benefits, health care costs, pension funds, current benefits structure are all going to need to be massively slashed to make a profitable company coming out of Chapter 11. Unfortunately, it seems like the tax payers will need to take on the burden of many of these costs. However, taking on these burdens in a proper restructure seems to make a great deal more sense, than simply loaning GM some funds.