Monza: A new Generation

[shambles]

A lot people hate the first chicane at Monza. I do. But would they be willing to remove Biassono (Curva Grande) to make the situation better there?

The challenge I was faced with, with this particular circuit - was, to create a modern turn one facility that eliminates the need for the first chicane. It should promote overtaking, and it shouldn't ruin the essence of the Monza circuit.

Here is my edit of Monza;



As you can see, I have designed a Bahrain type first corner, just beyond the entry to the Curva Grande. This would be appropriate for overtaking, whilst also not demonstrabling taking away the nature of Monza. You will also notice I have removed the second chicane, to provide a straight run down to the Lesmo's.

What d'ya think guys?

PAUL

[Alwaysfirst]

Like having no chicane before the Lesmos but I hate that new 1st corner complex. In all honesty I don't thik that the 1st chicane at Monza is all that bad. Yes-it would be so much better without it but I think that isn't terrible-it allows overtaking & gives a good 1st lap spectacle. The are much worse 1st corners in racing.

[shambles]

Ahh ok I see. Yes I do agree, about the fact there are worst first corners. Would you rather that the Curva Grande was re-instated. Would you be a promoter of trying to get overtaking at Monza, or would you be against it?

PAUL

[Purist]

I cannot see the image, so I'm not sure what to say on your edit.

I will say that the 2000 Italian Grand Prix REALLY turned me off to the idea that chicanes have some appreciable redeeming value. If you don't know what happened in that race, I'll be happy to elaborate.

Strike the first part. The image came up when the page reloaded.

[Purist]

I prefer having Curva Grande, and anyway, it's not the wisest thing to have a tight first turn. If you accordian what is a bunched field to start with, well, you get the picture. We can only push the laws of physics so far before we hit the proverbial brick wall. It's a game we play all the time out on the racetrack, but it has its limits.

[Alwaysfirst]

The trouble with having the fast Curva Grande at Monza would be that it would be simply too fast for modern safety standards. The chicanes at Monza havn't caused that many serious accidents in the last few years, especially not the 1st one. The 2nd chicane, now that's a different matter. I'm all in favour of getting rid of that 1 as it hinders racing & can be dangerous (as was shown when the marshall sadly got killed), as well as the fact that it is pretty pointless. I would love to see Monza with no chicanes again but you have to be realistic. With speeds as high as they would be if they removed the chicanes you cannot seriously suggest that this circuit would be safer without them, as safe as the cars are now. For one thing, if there was a serious crash the debris would be going at about 215-235mph. Imagine what would happen if that went into a grandstand. Keep the 1st & 3rd chicanes & get rid of the 2nd-that's what I say!

[Purist]

They are already doing 225-230 into the first chicane, and 210-215 into the other three major braking zones.

To run without the chicanes would require the cars to be re-geared for less acceleration and more top end, so I don't see the cars being able to do more than about 240-245 without them, which is minimally faster than they are going now, and not much higher from a percentage stand-point either. Heck, German touring cars go into the Tiergarten at those sorts of speeds, with MUCH LESS run-off, and they weigh TWICE what an F1 car does. And you're calling Monza without chicanes too dangerous?

[shambles]

I think this could turn into a great debate. I think having Monza, without any chicanes would be really too dangerous by modern standards. Not nessecarily down to speeds, but - moreover, what do people think the risk is that (especially when the CDG wing comes into place) that contact could be made at high speed, with disastrous results?

I think, now - the a good idea would be to remove the second chicane, and perhaps make the second lesmo a little tighter. Also - a reprofiling of the first chicane, perhaps make it wider?

What do people think of the risk of an accident there, similar to that which befell Baumgartner and Pantano in 2004 in practice?

Would it be a good idea, to switch the direction of the second chicane? Make it go right - left rather than the other.

Paul

[Alwaysfirst]

Originally Posted by Purist

To run without the chicanes would require the cars to be re-geared for less acceleration and more top end, so I don't see the cars being able to do more than about 240-245 without them, which is minimally faster than they are going now, and not much higher from a percentage stand-point either.

If you seriously think that within 2 years the cars wouldn't be reguarly be topping well over 250mph then you are living in a dream world. The cars at the moment don't have that kind of acceleration to those speeds not because the cars can't be made to go that fast, but because they don't need too. Removing the chicanes would mean that there was a need for the cars to go that fast. And it would only take 2 years max. to do it. I mean even with the new v8 rule for next year some insiders already believe that by the end of next year the cars will be lapping possibly less than a second off current pace so with that kind of agressive advancement 250mph would be no real target whatsoever.

[Raglanparade]

Id love to see the Current F1 cars race into Curva Grande at full speed without the chicane before hand.

The second chicane should be eliminated... and made into a straight road... with a right-left combination available as an alternate route (eg. the current first chicane at Monza)

This means that cars can approach this chicane at very high speed... and if they miss their braking zone... they just go straight on and though the tarmac.. as opposed to the current gravel then tyre wall scenario. The second chicane would need to be made as tight as the current first chicane.. im sure there would be mega braking duels braking from 240-250mph to 50mph..

This mega braking zone will enhance overtaking.. the main reason overtaking is more difficult in F1 these days is the very short braking distances, a very fast to very slow braking zone means a longer braking zone.. and more chance for overtaking.

Brake failure be a problem !?!? instead of turning right then left... just head down the straight road down to lesmos, use a bit of engine braking and surely it wouldnt be that dangerous.

The Ascari chicane needs to be tightened also. The cars currently enter it at about 100mph... meaning that the braking zone is only really 200mph to 100mph.. i feel if this chicane was slowed to a 40mph chicane.. it would open up another passing opportunity.

The same for the parabolica. the drivers drop back to 4th to take the corner at about 120-130mph.. Dare i say this without getting flamed, but if the entry to the parabolica was made a 50mph 90 degree angled corner... then it would provide.. alas.. a 3rd overtaking opportunity

Then you blast back down the main straight to Curva Grande to seperate the men from the boys.

[Purist]

I'm not sure they would get that fast so quickly. Could they even take Curva Grande flat-out at 230 mph? I have my doubts. BTW, in unofficial testing, a "speed merchant special" F1 car only pulled 256 mph in runs on a VERY long runway and on the sand at Mojave.

The fast nature of the Parabolica makes slipstreaming on the main straight more likely, so leave it alone.

If you slow up the Variente Ascari like you're saying, you will have another setup like you have with the current Variente Seconda.