Only 19 drivers to Brand Hatch?

[Dov]

Are you upset corkholio that you didn't get the second seat at Walker Racing and Lavin did? I wouldn't accuse somebody of being a IRL fan unless I had read some of their posts in the IRL forum. If you don't like it when I point out people in this thread who constantly slam certain drivers (who have more talent then you could ever dream of) because it makes them feel important...then don't read my posts.

[corkholio]

I am not going to skip your posts when you are blantantly falsely accusing me of something. Go ahead and try to find a post I made in the IRL forums here. You won't find any.
Even so whether someone like Boots is not an IRL hater or not is not your business to point out. He is just entitled to an opinion as you are.

I think most would agree that Lavin is way of his depth and deserve the same heat that is being leveled at Scott "The Banker" Mayer, who I am sure is more talented than everyone else here, yet that hasn't stopped anyone from bashing him.

[Jay]

Lavin's struggles aside, as a human being I don't think he or some of the other drivers you've slagged off deserve that kind of treatement. Criticise their driving all you want, say they're not even ready for go-karts, etc, but leave the personal insults out of it.

P.S. I do agree that Lavin does seem out of his depths and if I were the owner or the sponsor I'd seriously consider another driver that could run mid-pack or at the front. But, that doesn't mean Lavin deserves to be called any names or have personal insults thrown at him.

[Dov]

1)I wasn't talking about you corkholio...I was talking about Boots. I called you a crapwagon fan the other time because I was tired of reading your constant negative views on CART and it's drivers. (2)I want to apoligize to Boots for maybe going over the line. That being said, from now on when I read a thread (their point of view on CART) from somebody who is a CART and IRL fan...I will have to take their opinion with a grain of salt. (3) If you had read one of my threads from page 2 corkholio, you would see that I already agree with you on how bad Lavin and Yoong are. The best we can hope for from these two is if they can keep their cars straight and get out of the way when the leaders come round and round to lap them. I think CART could have got more talented drivers for those seats...Papis, Gidley and Salo etc. But where I disagree with you... is when you constantly bash Lavin and Yoong...I think you have given them enough heat. That's just my opinion. Your entitled to yours corkholio and boots is definitely entitled to his.
P.S. Today is the first time I have ever heard the name Scott Mayer mentioned. Didn't no anything about him until racefanatic gave me a little bit of information on him. Can somebody fill me in on Mayer's racing career. I say if he cant turn left and likes to go straight...well then maybe he's suited to drive in the NHRA.

[#27]

Somebody said something about Atlantic drivers coming into the series next year. Well if Jon Fogarty, the series champion of 2002 could only manage 1 test (Newman-Haas), then I dont see any of the 2003 crop making it to ChampCars. What a tragedy. Unless Pook takes an unprecedented step like mandating a minimum number of American drivers in the series, CART is just going to become a series for sponsor-backed F3000 alumni.

And the other thing I always wonder about is why only **** drivers have money behind them. How come even good European drivers like say Marc Hynes (1999 British F3 Champion), Justin Wilson and so many others cant seem to find backing despite proven records? Is it all in their appearances and PR ability? Somebody please enlighten me.

[BlueStang]

Originally posted by ¡As-de-mim!
We'll leave that distinction to Scott "I can't even turn left but I'm an Indycar driver" Mayer.

If PDM replaces him with someone at Indy, and they do a better job, I don't expect that he'll be an Indycar driver much longer.

The official reason he's didn't complete ROP was mechanical, but there has been debate about that.

Blue

[Jay]

Agreed #27 about Atlantic. To be honest, if you look at the guys that have come into Cart from Atlantic vs F3000 over the past few years there isn't really a lot to say that the F3000 guys are that much better than the ones coming from Atlantic. The main difference I see is that the F3000 guys are more likely to bring more money and sponsorship with them...and that's very important.

[KC]

Enough with all the damn bashing. CART and the IRL are comparing apples and oranges anymore. Okay. The engine formula is completely different. The chassis do not even look similar anymore other than the tires are exposed and the driver is ahead of the engine. Just give it a *******g rest, everyone.

Back to the original thread before it was hijacked over a "mine's bigger than your's" argument.

CART definitely needs to beef up its fields, but subsidizing new teams from the CART coffers is self destructive in the long run. I can see offering a new team assistance for their first season but they must run on their own impetus in the second season.

I see three reasons why Toyota Atlantic drivers struggle to break into CART.

1. There are almost no sponsors for a young unknown driver in North America for anyting other than stock cars. NASCAR has created a sponsor vacuum and even they are beginning to feel a little bit of the crunch.

2. The F3000 cars offer less of a performance jump into CART than Atlantics. The F3000 cars are more powerful than Atlantics and much more like CART cars than F1 cars. The Atlantics are about 1/2 the power of a ChampCar and do not have the same level of difficulty to drive as an F3000 car. A competent F3000 driver is much better prepared to deal with the additional torque and speed of the modern ChampCar.

3. A racer coming from the European arena is much better prepared to deal with the difficulties of adapting to a new team. He has already learned to deal with vastly differing cultures and languages, dealt much more in depth with technical issues on car setup and already understands the political side of motorsports. These are things that many American drivers do not have to face when racing in North America.

These things contribute to the lower car counts and must be addressed. I just don't know what the answer is.

[Speedworx]

Why do people expect more than 19 cars?

19 have entered the series this season, no more will appear!

[Dov]

Toyota Atlantic Drivers Struggle To Break Into Cart is not the title of this thread either KC! It's called "Only 19 Drivers To Brands Hatch?"

[KC]

Indeed it is. However, Atlantics and F3000 are two of the most common routes to get new drivers and thereby increase the grid size beyond 19. I don't see a lot of NASCAR drivers or F1 drivers looking to make the jump into CART. It was brought up earlier in this thread why Atlantic drivers where having such a hard time. Just offering my two cents without resorting to bashing the IRL or any other series.

[Bizzo5000]

Damn you people are uptight lately. What happened to all the love people? Now, everyone hug the guy next to you, sing a folk song and feel the love.

[Dov]

This silly childish war that I waged with Corkholio and Boots came about because I deemed one to be an extremly negative CART fan (constantly bashing Cart and it's drivers) and the other for being a CART and IRL fan (which I had no right to do). It came out of frustration. It was CHILDISH...I apoligize again...I FEEL THE LOVE...can we PLEASE move on.

[KC]

I was not pointing fingers, I just over-reacted to what has been going on. I apologize as well.

[BootsOntheSide]

No problem Dov. Assuming you meant that I'm the CART and IRL fan, that's true, but I'm much more of a CART man. I like some of the IRL's races, and respect the talent of some of the guys who crossed over (although I agree that guys like Dixon are wasted in all-oval racing), but I'd still prefer it if the two series merged.

[Dov]

Thanks Boots and KC. Yes Boots, you are the one who I called a CART and IRL fan. While I wasn't just talking about you...I singled you out. It wasn't right for me to point you out and Im sorry again. I already no that you are a huge CART fan...I guess you caught me at a time when I felt CART needed to be protected. I think it's okay when people question things (CART), but it p1sses me off when people are constantly bashing CART (not you Boots). But everybody has a right to their opinion. Talk to you later.

[KC]

I don't consider myself an IRL fan, but nor do I hate it. To me it is another form of auto racing that I don't follow closely. I also don't follow offshore boat racing, Superkarts, and the US version of Speedway bikes. They are interesting, but not enough for me to stop what I am doing and tune in. I barely have enough time to catch the CART, F1, and sports car races I enjoy. There are certainly some individuals in the equation concerning CART and the IRL that I have lost respect for, but that is another issue. Enough said.

Does anyone have any ideas on how CART can increase its car count?

[Dov]

Finally we are talking about the real subject...starting on page 5. The only way I can see CART increasing it's car count at Brands Hatch is if there are 1-3 one offs. The only other possibility is for a team in CART like Pk or Fittipaldi/Dingman racing to prepare a second car for somebody like Papis, Gidley, Salo etc. Most likley it will be the one offs.

P.S. This is the last thing I have to say about CART and the IRL. I would prefer if CART and the IRL merg (it would be amazing), but if Tony George doesn't want to compromise and he wants to make it a US or THEM issue...then it's going to be THEM (IRL) who folds! Let's keep are fingers crossed and hope that TG is willing to compromise. Like you were saying...enough said!

[corkholio]

PK already said they don't have the infrastructure to run another car.

FDR aren't even preparing their own car, and I don't think Conquest is prepared to deal with 3 yet.

[Dov]

That's why I think it will only be the one offs...if that.