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25 Apr 2010, 02:21 (Ref:2679179)
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#26 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,611
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Good on Nissan for sticking up for themselves, it sounds like the equalization wasnt done fairly at all. I really hope they race at Silverstone though and the FIA cuts them a break.
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Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly." 
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25 Apr 2010, 02:50 (Ref:2679185)
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#27 | |||
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
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25 Apr 2010, 03:58 (Ref:2679193)
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#28 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,611
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They may possibly have gotten a better weight break in the first place if the testing had've been uniformly done to all cars, e.g same number of laps in every car and in the same conditions (time of day etc).
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__________________
Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly."
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26 Apr 2010, 00:21 (Ref:2679680)
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#29 | |||
 Race OfficialVeteran
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 4,126
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Quote:
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__________________
You live and learn. At any rate, you live. Douglas Adams
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26 Apr 2010, 02:26 (Ref:2679695)
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#30 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 449
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The conditions aren't gonna be 100% the same, but he means to test one on a sunny dry track and the other on a damp cooler track.
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26 Apr 2010, 09:39 (Ref:2679788)
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#31 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,007
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We have had performance balancing for some time now and I fully understand the reasons for it but have to say I am not convinced that it can ever be totally fair.
The formula cars in single seater races are the best we have in terms of equal equipment and in sportscars a formula can be laid down in LMP terms but this gets screwed up when we involve more than one fuel type. Where production cars are concerned I really don't know how you do it unless engine size and weight/tyresize/ride height etc are stipulated. No restrictions on engine size is always going to give you problems. To make decisions based on subjective performance tests, no matter who does the driving is certainly going to give rise to complaints and gamesmanship. What is wrong with setting predetermined restictor sizes based on engine capacity and stipulate homologated production engines, gearboxes and minimum weights, perhaps a control fuel and bodywork as showroom? |
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26 Apr 2010, 09:48 (Ref:2679792)
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#32 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,834
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Me? I like Belcar rules. X KG per BHP. Simple.
However, I appreciate some cars working better on high speed circuits, others on tight and twisty stuff. Makes a season more interesting... Plus, the way you have it, some manufacturer will run away and hide, which nobody wants? |
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__________________
Tim Yorath Ecurie Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch Fan of "the sacred monster Christophe Bouchut"...
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26 Apr 2010, 13:59 (Ref:2679932)
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#33 | |||
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,007
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26 Apr 2010, 14:11 (Ref:2679935)
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#34 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,325
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Neither... Belcar has been (at least in its top class) GT3 for the last 3 or 4 years.
One series that does power to weight quite successfully is the Dutch Supercar Challenge. |
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26 Apr 2010, 16:06 (Ref:2679990)
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#35 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,834
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Yes sorry, my mistake. Dutch Supercars.
(Sounds of self flagellation fading....) |
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__________________
Tim Yorath Ecurie Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch Fan of "the sacred monster Christophe Bouchut"...
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26 Apr 2010, 18:26 (Ref:2680067)
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#36 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,710
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Yes, Dutch Supercar. They use a mandatory data logger and also a rolling road (at least in the past). All fine for club racing, not sure if it works 100% on a WC level.
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27 Apr 2010, 13:06 (Ref:2680509)
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#37 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 832
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My ever-reliable source advises ballast removed from the Nissans. Just aswell seeing as they are the only manufacturer truly behind the series.
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27 Apr 2010, 18:57 (Ref:2680677)
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#38 | |
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Posts: 18
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28 Apr 2010, 07:05 (Ref:2680926)
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#39 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,611
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Good to hear. Probably not the best idea to anger the only manufacturer who directly built a car to the new regulations and supplies the safety cars....
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__________________
Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly."
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28 Apr 2010, 07:29 (Ref:2680939)
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#40 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 712
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Corvette:
+40 kg to the minimum weight of the car which is 1200 kg. The total is 1240 kg Maserati: +35 kg to the minimum weight of the car which is 1200 kg. The total is 1235 kg. add 2 restrictors of a maximum diameter of 31.2 mm. Aston Martin: -50 kg from the minimum weight of the car which is 1200 kg. The total is 1150 kg. Nissan:-20 kg from the minimum weight of the car which is 1250 kg. The total is 1230 kg Lamborghini:-10 kg from the minimum weight of the car which is 1200 kg. The total is 1190 kg. add 2 restrictors of a maximum diameter of 32.8 mm (instead of 32 mm). No adjustment for the Ford GT, that dominated at Yas Marina :-| |
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28 Apr 2010, 07:37 (Ref:2680941)
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#41 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,618
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well . it was actually more Grosjean than ford .. but i see your point ..
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__________________
Apocalypse becomes creation / Gor-Gor shall erase the nation Before you leap into his gizzard / Fall and worship Tyrant lizard Ciao Marco
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28 Apr 2010, 13:45 (Ref:2681139)
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#42 | ||
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Race Official Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15,734
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That was pretty strange that all the cars except the Ford had adjustments. Are we going to be seeing this after every race? that could get old fast.
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28 Apr 2010, 14:39 (Ref:2681166)
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#43 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,892
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Well, it was only the one Ford that performed THAT well in Abu Dhabi. I don't recall seeing the second Matech Ford in the races, though I'm not exactly surprised, but the Marc VDS cars certainly weren't running away with anything, and their driver lineups aren't especially poor.
I find the level of weight reduction for the Astons a bit surprising (on the high side from what I would have expected). Conversely, I would have thought the Nissans needed more weight off. I do wish they would have left the Corvettes and Maseratis alone, and just taken more weight off and added more power to the Nissans, Astons, and Lambos to speed them up. |
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__________________
The only certainty is that nothing is certain.
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28 Apr 2010, 14:55 (Ref:2681170)
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#44 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,100
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The second Matech Ford GT was the one that Natacha Gachnang pranged in qualifying, breaking her leg.
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__________________
Marbot : "Ironically, the main difference between a Red Bull and a Virgin is that Red Bull can make parts of its car smaller and floppier."
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28 Apr 2010, 16:46 (Ref:2681223)
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#45 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,793
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And even if they had another driver to put in under force majeure, I believe the chassis is written off. They had to perform a fairly major operation on the thing to cut her out of it!
I think that a lot of the pace of the lead Ford was down to having the lead development driver in Thomas Mutsch and arguably one of the most talented young drivers in the world in Romain Grosjean driving it, under the auspices of the organization that developed it. To restrict the car based on someone putting together the best program would be rubbish IMO. If the VDS cars also end up dominating, then something should be done. |
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28 Apr 2010, 18:45 (Ref:2681293)
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#46 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,892
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I did say I wasn't exactly surprised about not seeing the second Matech car in the races, as yes, that was the one Natasha put into the wall head first.
Just wondering out loud here, but is the Marc VDS Team basically the Belgian Racing Team, just under a new label? |
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__________________
The only certainty is that nothing is certain.
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28 Apr 2010, 20:03 (Ref:2681336)
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#47 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,793
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Essentially. VDS is Count Marc van der Straten who is a wealthy enthusiast, and Marc VDS is the banner under which he has consolidated his efforts as VDS Racing and Belgian Racing Team together with a new Moto2 program. They run rally raid as well as the GT1 and GT3 programs, Eric de Doncker is involved and Didier de Radigues is running the bike end of things. Nice to see the 'gentleman' team owner concept.
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29 Apr 2010, 09:59 (Ref:2681544)
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#48 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 21
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Quote:
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3 May 2010, 04:04 (Ref:2683582)
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#49 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,892
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Anybody think that maybe they took a bit too much weight off of the Aston Martins?
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__________________
The only certainty is that nothing is certain.
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3 May 2010, 04:26 (Ref:2683587)
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#50 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,618
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+30 for the Astons I would reckon..
and a -20 for Corvettes |
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__________________
Apocalypse becomes creation / Gor-Gor shall erase the nation Before you leap into his gizzard / Fall and worship Tyrant lizard Ciao Marco
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