Bell's Banter 2022

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Joe, if you are talking about PayPal, Ebay does accept payment via them, as they own the platform, but because of that ownership, Amazon no longer does.

Mike, sorry to have the cheek to doubt you here but I didn't think that Ebay did own PayPal (now)? I'm sure I'd read something a few months ago about them setting up their own payment scheme so that they didn't have to use PayPal anymore.
(I could of course be putting 2 + 2 together and making 5 when what I read was that Amazon were stopping using PayPal)

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Mike, sorry to have the cheek to doubt you here but I didn't think that Ebay did own PayPal (now)? I'm sure I'd read something a few months ago about them setting up their own payment scheme so that they didn't have to use PayPal anymore.
(I could of course be putting 2 + 2 together and making 5 when what I read was that Amazon were stopping using PayPal)

I appear to be a bit behind the news (or I just can't remember everything that I read any more), but, having checked it now, Ebay, after purchasing them in 2002, did split from PayPal in 2015 but continued a partnership with them until now. The situation currently is that you can still purchase goods from Ebay via PayPal until some time next year, but I believe that sellers can no longer use a PayPal account to accept payments - it has to go to the seller's bank account.


And from what I can remember, Amazon stopped accepting payments through PayPal when Ebay purchased it

[crmalcolm]

Just to add - Amazon will begin to accept Venmo in 2022 (Venmo is owned by PayPal).

[Gerard C]

What I noticed since one year or two is that it becomes really hard to open a case via Paypal even when the seller is ready for a refund or exchange.

[terence]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

What I noticed since one year or two is that it becomes really hard to open a case via Paypal even when the seller is ready for a refund or exchange.

Yes, used to be able to make a complaint directly to pay pal, that has apparently ended???*

[Gerard C]

Seems you can always try but it sends you trgough a labyrinth, what do you want, are you sure, can you be more precise, did you contact the seller, what is the serial number of the good you did not receive… If you insist we think its better you manage yourself and… oooops, too late to complain Dud, case not opened but closed!

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Parts supply is becoming a major problem and one that is not helped by the attitude of the main dealers. They just shrug their shoulders and say "the parts will be here when they are here" (like it or lump it kind of thing).

This is now just part of how all industries now run, with the shift to "just in time" delivery of everything from raw materiels and manufactured items to even the food on the shelves of the supermarkets. And it's why whenever there is the slightest hiccup in deliveries, shelves /parts racks become empty.

This philosophy isn't new, of course. Back in the 70s we supplied the largest two supermarkets of the time, with one using the just in time regime, whilst the other was the complete opposite which served them well. The former was a nightmare to make deliveries to because they only requested a supply the day before it was needed and this led to huge queues of lorries trying to make deliveries as there wasn't a delivery time booking scheme.

The latter would call for deliveries about ten days in advance, and gave a time for arrival at their warehouses and trucks were in and out in short order.

The other thing that was totally different was that their buyers all insisted on at least 3 suppliers for all non-branded goods. this meant that if there was a problem with one supplier, then they expected the other suppliers to cover, temporarily at least, for the supplier in trouble. For example, on two occasions during the 70s there were supply problems caused by circumstances out of the control of the suppliers. In the first instance, my factory offices were set on fire by a group of youths who had broken in looking for cash, but didn't find any. This caused limited smoke and water damage to goods which put us about a week behind so our competitors covered for us.

The other time, our competitor, who was based just outside Bristol, was flooded when there was an exceptionally high tide on the Channel and he was out of operation for at least a couple of months, and we and the other supplier covered for them. And when contacts were renewed later, the supermarket made adjustments in the size of the contracts to reflect what had occurred to balance what had been supplied because we all had equal size contracts.

As far as car parts are concerned, when I went to live in Spain, I took my right hand drive Merc cabriolet with me which the required new headlamp units because, even when adjusted and with Spanish spec glass lenses, they wouldn't pass their equivalent of our MOT. Delivery of the units from Germany took weeks, and the local dealer just shrugged his shoulders and basically said they'll be here when they arrive. This was in 2004, so nothing new about this.

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Parts supply is becoming a major problem and one that is not helped by the attitude of the main dealers. They just shrug their shoulders and say "the parts will be here when they are here" (like it or lump it kind of thing).

One of the big problems about delivery is the shortage of HGV drivers .

I have seen that Poland is about 100,000 drivers down , and the UK , Germany and France are all about 50 to 60 thousand below what is needed .

The DVLA has not helped , with a large portion of its workforce still not back in its office since the Lockdown , and something like 50,000 HGV licence applications outstanding for more than 1 year .

[Gerard C]

I dont think its only a matter of delivery, truckers or taxes. Would be too simple. I suspect someone is playing with steel price and supply from his office.

[terence]

Brexit scared the wrong people away.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

I dont think its only a matter of delivery, truckers or taxes. Would be too simple. I suspect someone is playing with steel price and supply from his office.

I do wonder why there is a shortage of truckers, it can't just be covid can it? I read of numbers around 100k short in mainland Europe. Then again, the shipping problems are also impacting the USA, among other countries.

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I do wonder why there is a shortage of truckers, it can't just be covid can it? I read of numbers around 100k short in mainland Europe. Then again, the shipping problems are also impacting the USA, among other countries.

Numbers quoted for Europe as a whole are about 400,000 HGV drivers .https://www.ti-insight.com/briefs/eu...00000-drivers/

The US has figures of 80,000 drivers needed .

In the UK , something like 90% of all goods movements are by road , so it will all impact on getting goods to customers .

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

Numbers quoted for Europe as a whole are about 400,000 HGV drivers .https://www.ti-insight.com/briefs/eu...00000-drivers/

The US has figures of 80,000 drivers needed .

In the UK , something like 90% of all goods movements are by road, so it will all impact on getting goods to customers .

Understood but why now? Why is there a sudden (apparently) worldwide shortage of truckers? It's patently not Brexit since that wouldn't affect the rest of the world. Shipping I undestand because as I said earlier ships were/are all in the wrong places.

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Understood but why now? Why is there a sudden (apparently) worldwide shortage of truckers? It's patently not Brexit since that wouldn't affect the rest of the world. Shipping I undestand because as I said earlier ships were/are all in the wrong places.

I think that is a difficult one Peter .

Possibly several reasons ; A lot of truckers are reaching retirement age .
Poor wages and conditions .
Political propaganda has meant a lot of younger people are not taking it up as it is " Not Green ".
And civil servant incompetance means new applications are not being dealt with .

[Mike Harte]

Peter, speaking about the UK only, and based on what I have heard and read recently, the shortage is mainly three fold. Firstly, HGV driving was not attracting enough younger recruits, so ageing of drivers has been a problem with a lot leaving the profession.

Secondly, not directly blaming Brexit but the result has been that a number of foreign, mainly Easter European, drivers have gone back to Europe and European haulage companies are distributing less in the UK, possibly because of delays at the ports on both sides of the Channel.

And thirdly, more and more haulage is being consolidated into large transport groups and they have both driven down wages whilst demanding more from drivers, in some cases to exceed what is possible to do under current regulations. The employers don't actually tell the drivers to break the law, but that has been the net result of their expectations of their employees.

It is not the most attractive profession to be in, although it is far better than it was as so much of the traffic is palletised, so no hand-loading/ unloading and very little has to be sheeted and roped down as it goes in closed or curtain-sided vehicles.

But a lot of drivers don't believe that the rewards justify what is expected of them.

Added, and Tel has just answered my essay, but, in his case, just a few words.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Peter, speaking about the UK only, and based on what I have heard and read recently, the shortage is mainly three fold. Firstly, HGV driving was not attracting enough younger recruits, so ageing of drivers has been a problem with a lot leaving the profession.

Secondly, not directly blaming Brexit but the result has been that a number of foreign, mainly Easter European, drivers have gone back to Europe and European haulage companies are distributing less in the UK, possibly because of delays at the ports on both sides of the Channel.

And thirdly, more and more haulage is being consolidated into large transport groups and they have both driven down wages whilst demanding more from drivers, in some cases to exceed what is possible to do under current regulations. The employers don't actually tell the drivers to break the law, but that has been the net result of their expectations of their employees.

It is not the most attractive profession to be in, although it is far better than it was as so much of the traffic is palletised, so no hand-loading/ unloading and very little has to be sheeted and roped down as it goes in closed or curtain-sided vehicles.

But a lot of drivers don't believe that the rewards justify what is expected of them.

Added, and Tel has just answered my essay, but, in his case, just a few words.

I go along with a lot.of what you say but according to recent figures apart from a small glitch the supposed reduction of cross channel trade, never materialised. So that part of the issue if it exists is immaterial. Then the point about not needing Eastern European drivers becomes moot when considering the need for drivers pan Europe. The points about age and attractiveness may well be right. But we are talking serious numbers. Did they all retire at the same time?

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I go along with a lot.of what you say but according to recent figures apart from a small glitch the supposed reduction of cross channel trade, never materialised. So that part of the issue if it exists is immaterial. Then the point about not needing Eastern European drivers becomes moot when considering the need for drivers pan Europe. The points about age and attractiveness may well be right. But we are talking serious numbers. Did they all retire at the same time?

I think the lockdown had some effect .

Some drivers would have thought it was a good time to retire .
Some possible drivers put off starting up as it was not a good time .
And then the catch up effect from everything being put off for a while actually meant that more drivers than normal were needed .

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I go along with a lot.of what you say but according to recent figures apart from a small glitch the supposed reduction of cross channel trade, never materialised. So that part of the issue if it exists is immaterial. Then the point about not needing Eastern European drivers becomes moot when considering the need for drivers pan Europe. The points about age and attractiveness may well be right. But we are talking serious numbers. Did they all retire at the same time?

I cant believe so many drivers retiring at the same time either. And I dont blame Brexit or lockdowns either.

[Mike Harte]

Peter, I wasn't quite clear about the European distributors, as I didn't actually mean cross channel goods. What I referred to was European hauliers using their vehicles and drivers to stay in the UK picking up and transporting goods within the UK without returning to their home bases in Europe. I believe that the original "deal" post Brexit was that they could legitimately pick up one load on their way back to Europe but for delivery in the UK, but that has now been increased, because of the driver shortage, to two loads.

[Peter Mallett]

OK but it doesn't explain the entire problem.

[E.B]

Here in Aus we have had similar issues.... here they are putting the sudden shortage down to the sudden huge spike in Covid infections. Drivers are off the road at home isolating for 7 days, either from infection or close contact. Not sure what the isolation setup is in UK or Europe, but that is what they are saying here.
Also supermarkets have staff shortages for the same reason. My local supermarket is after casual staff to replace isolating staff.... someone I know got work with an over the phone interview, offered a job over the phone and started that evening.
Its affecting a lot of industry here, not just truckies and retail staff. With the recent introduction RAT's here our numbers of reported infections were suddenly tens of thousands per day.... previously our record was 2500 a day. Not sure if some are seeing it as an opportunity for a paid 7 days off work sick period and falsely reporting positive tests or if the numbers are genuine.
Just a thought.

[VIVA GT]

From what I've heard about the working life of an HGV driver (certainly here in the UK), I'm amazed that anyone does it.
As others have said above, the bosses expect their drivers to break the rules on working hours (but of course, if caught it would 'be the drivers fault, he chose to work the extra hours...'). The long distance drivers apparently struggle to find adequate overnight rest facilities where they can park safely, get a proper meal and use decent, clean toilets and washing facilities before going back to sleep in their (admittedly, mostly quite plush and well equipped) cabs. From what our local volunteer litter pickers say about the huge quantity of bags & bottles of human waste they collect on a regular basis I find quite stomach churning! Plus by all accounts, the washing & toilet facilities available for female drivers are woefully inadequate. Then added to this there are the unsociable hours they have to work whilst being away from families for unspecified amounts of time, all for a pitiful (by comparison) wage.
I am sure (or at least I hope) that not all haulage contractors can be 'tarred with this same brush', but I bet that they're a minority.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

OK but it doesn't explain the entire problem.

+ 1. Lack of truckers, workers all this is assessment. What about the lack of raw materials? Some months ago, we could have crude oil for free. Today here, fuel and diesel prices are at the highest and its not only because of the taxes increase.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

+ 1. Lack of truckers, workers all this is assessment. What about the lack of raw materials? Some months ago, we could have crude oil for free. Today here, fuel and diesel prices are at the highest and its not only because of the taxes increase.

Obviously very little of these matters happen in isolation, and there will always be other contributory factors.

One of those factors is the lack of shipping containers in the Far East, because there are empty container "mountains" in Europe and the Americas. This happened as we, collectively, export far less to the East than they send us, and certainly at the beginning of the pandemic, port authorities and shippers were not returning the empties due to lack of port operatives, and they needed to speed up the turnaround of the vast container ships.

What I don't understand is that now that things are returning to more normal times, I accept not fully yet, why the ship operators would rather sail relatively empty back to the East than fill up with the empties?

This, apart from any other reason, is driving up costs because the container leasing companies are now charging astronomical prices to customers - I've read of 10 to 15 times the amount that was charged prior to the pandemic.

Maybe if the port authorities started levying hefty long stay penalties to the shippers, the log-jam may be eased?

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

OK but it doesn't explain the entire problem.

It clearly does. A load of problems have been outlined here, and there is a shortage of drivers. As far as I read it, that's QED. Why are you trying to read something more sinister? Crap pay, crap working conditions, dreadful facilities, an ageing workforce. What else do you need for a perfect storm?

FWIW I know a number of people in their 60s who found in the lockdowns there was more to life than blue collar jobs.

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk