[WEC] WEC 2023 Season - A new beginning!

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by JT240Z

Goodyear v/s Michelin? All IMSA prototype cars run the same Michelin tires. If the tires are the problem in ACO then they need to get with the program and fix the problem. Tire warmers are just a bandage fix for a more systemic problem.

Drivers will complain about things they allowed to complain about if it helps their performance.

I'm sure the tires the new GTP (LMDh) cars use are different from P2 and P3 tires. I doubt even P2 and P3 are the same.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I think giving LMP2 continued headliner stratus in those series is the ACO's way of making up for kicking them out of WEC and to ensure that there will be enough LMP2 entries around to have a viable class at Le Mans.

On the other hand, it would really make sense to open up ELMS to Hypercars for at least two different reasons:

1. there's more demand for WEC races than spaces on the calender, especially in Europe. So allowing Hypercars in ELMS would give Porsche and BMW a chance to race their cars in front of a home audience (assuming ELMS would go back to the Nürburgring or another German track).

2. The Hypercar class will be more stable in the long term if older cars can be sold on to privateers and if there is a pipeline for new teams to come into WEC. Granted, LMP2 can play the role of that pipeline to a certain degree as well, but its still a big jump to go from what is essentially a spec class to the much more open and hybrid-powered LMH or LMDh cars.

Opening ELMS to Hypercar entries will destroy the series in just a year or two as P2 participants are being demoted to second rangs in a second rang championship, which will force those entrants and amateur racers out. We'll end up with a handful of top class entries (very similar to recent HY class entry numbers) + a boatload of GT3s (see below).

With P2 set to be kicked out from the WEC, ELMS might see a further increase of those entries. Combined with the GT class swapping the GTE platform for GT3, there'll be an abundance of entry requests in ELMS as well. The response might very well be to eliminate P3s from the series.

[JT240Z]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

I'm sure the tires the new GTP (LMDh) cars use are different from P2 and P3 tires. I doubt even P2 and P3 are the same.

In 2019, Michelin became the Official Tire of IMSA. Michelin is the exclusive tire provider for the WeatherTech Championship DPi, LMP2, LMP3 and GT Daytona classes and all classes in both IMSA MICHELIN Pilot Challenge and IMSA Prototype Challenge series. The WeatherTech Championship GT Le Mans class remains an open tire category.

This has carried over to LMDh as well. All GTP cars run the same brand tire. Tire size may differ from class to class but all cars within a class use the same tire and all cars on the track use Michelin branded tires.

Since the concern here is tire warmers, seem to me the only difference between AOC and IMSA are tire MFG and drivers in some cases.

Will be interesting to see what happens when LMH and LMDh cars run at IMSA together.

[Adam43]

What we have here is the internet and the difference between “the same tire” and “the same tire manufacturer”.

[JT240Z]

Originally Posted by Adam43

What we have here is the internet and the difference between “the same tire” and “the same tire manufacturer”.

Same tire used in the same class.

[Adam43]

different tires used in different classes!?

[JT240Z]

Originally Posted by Adam43

different tires used in different classes!?

Same tires used in all GTP classes but there are two compounds allowed based on track conditions and tire allocations are different depending on the race. Here's the tire specs:

https://www.imsa.com/wp-content/uplo...ations_GTP.pdf


Here's the chart with all of the classes for the 24 Hours of Daytona. Page 4 indicates the tire compounds used.

https://www.imsa.com/wp-content/uplo...24H-011823.pdf

As you can see there were two compounds that were allowed for each prototype class. GTD and GTD Pro could only use one compound. All were Michelin branded tires.

No tire warmers allowed at any IMSA events.

[Adam43]

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

I'm sure the tires the new GTP (LMDh) cars use are different from P2 and P3 tires. I doubt even P2 and P3 are the same.

See the references from JT240Z. Looks like you are spot on!

You can even buy some of the LMP3 tires online if you like. https://trueperformancemotorsport.co...-30-68-r18-s8m

[seanyb505]

I'd call Jackson motorsports if in the states. Not sure on non imsa pricing, but they're the race tire distributor and tire logistics people for imsa, along with a host of other non dot products. Also dot products. Also marketing and events if you're in to that sort of thing. More than just tires at any rate.

[JT240Z]

So where to the need for tire warmers factor in here? Is it that Michelin makes better tires or is it that drivers in IMSA know what they have to deal with and suck it up and deal with it?

[veeten]

One also has to remember that the types of surfaces that are raced on in North America are different than in Europe. Places like Sebring and Belle Isle are a concrete type were as Indy, Road America, and even COTA are asphalt/macadam surfaces. Very few tracks in Europe have a majority concrete surface, be they road courses or street tracks.

It is this that Michelin has to design tires that work on multiple surfaces for IMSA, whereas FIA are a more consistent surface.

[Adam43]

So easier! (WEC has Sebring and Le Mans adds a little variety)

[JT240Z]

Originally Posted by veeten

One also has to remember that the types of surfaces that are raced on in North America are different than in Europe. Places like Sebring and Belle Isle are a concrete type were as Indy, Road America, and even COTA are asphalt/macadam surfaces. Very few tracks in Europe have a majority concrete surface, be they road courses or street tracks.

It is this that Michelin has to design tires that work on multiple surfaces for IMSA, whereas FIA are a more consistent surface.

One would think that tire design would be easier with a consistent surface.

Not buying all of this track surface BS. The Petit is on a mostly asphalt surface. Tires are not the issue here. Drivers need to get weaned off of tire warmers and get with program. Learn to be professional drivers.

[chernaudi]

Also it has to be remembered that until this year (?), Michelin did have a virtual monopoly on LMP1, and on LMH's early 2021-22 incarnation. However, even back then (early LMH), and certainly in LMP1, each team had confidential tires to a degree. Even with the "spec" tires in LMH, the tires were made in two specs, hybrid and non-hybrid. Now, there's basically one spec, and that seems to favor the hybrid equipped LMH/LMDH cars.


One thing that I think has helped Toyota cope to a large degree is that they've been doing this for year, and the drivers that have come from IMSA or have a lot of IMSA experience have also adapted better. I think that most of Ferrari's drivers were taken from their pool of GTE/GT3 GT drivers, series that I believe previous used a form of tire warming.


However, I don't buy the tire warming deal entirely. If they did like how they did it back about 15 years ago (put the tires into ovens that ran to 150-160 degrees F), if it was cold especially, in the time it took to get the tires from the oven, to the pit area to the being bolted to the car, I'd suspect that the tires may've cooled significantly.


We didn't really see these issues, at least big time, at Sebring or Algarve because of the weather as far as ambient temp (and hence track temp ranges) were fairly easy to guess. Spa, with the traditional spring Ardennes weather, is a crap shoot. It even snowed at Spa at least once in recent years. So one can maybe forgive Michelin and Goodyear, even if they were going conservative, for getting it wrong.

Granted, Le Mans is a bit of a crap shoot. Though most races in recent years were in the 70's during the day, there were years like in 2000 and 2005 where it was in the 90's with temps in the front engine GT cars getting as high as 150-160 degrees at times, and every time it rains it tends to drop into the 60s max during the day.

[JT240Z]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Granted, Le Mans is a bit of a crap shoot. Though most races in recent years were in the 70's during the day, there were years like in 2000 and 2005 where it was in the 90's with temps in the front engine GT cars getting as high as 150-160 degrees at times, and every time it rains it tends to drop into the 60s max during the day.

Pretty much could have replace Le Mans with Petit Le Mans and the same would be true.

[Mike E]

Mikkel Jensen:
"“The tire used [in GTP] is the soft-high temperature. They are not using the medium-high temperature which [in Hypercar] we are obliged to do a double stint on because of the tire allocation.

“We have to use MHT. It takes away a minute or half a minute in Spa conditions, but it’s just the best tire for a double stint. So we have to use it, and that’s when it gets super risky on the warmup."

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...s-for-le-mans/

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Mikkel Jensen:
"“The tire used [in GTP] is the soft-high temperature. They are not using the medium-high temperature which [in Hypercar] we are obliged to do a double stint on because of the tire allocation.

“We have to use MHT. It takes away a minute or half a minute in Spa conditions, but it’s just the best tire for a double stint. So we have to use it, and that’s when it gets super risky on the warmup."

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...s-for-le-mans/

Clearest explanation I've seen on the matter with regards to IMSA comparisons.

[joeb]

For IMSA, they have been using the softer options (low or high) from Michelin in GTP thus far, but starting at next race the MHT will be the only one on offer.

https://www.imsa.com/wp-content/uplo...TP-REVISED.pdf

Later in the season they have left the door open to choose tires depending on what they find in the first couple of races on the MHT

[Mike E]

Proton 963 added to Monza entry in place of their #88 911. Bruni and Tincknell to drive, third driver TBC.

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2023/...for-monza.html

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Proton 963 added to Monza entry in place of their #88 911. Bruni and Tincknell to drive, third driver TBC.

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2023/...for-monza.html

Are we expecting another Porsche related driver? or someone with LMP2 experience that could slot in to the new Proto ride?

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by joeb

Are we expecting another Porsche related driver? or someone with LMP2 experience that could slot in to the new Proto ride?

Is there any driver who hasn't raced a Porsche? I expect they will be looking for an experienced driver to help with development

[Coach Ep]

Isn't Christian Ried's son lined up for a seat?

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Isn't Christian Ried's son lined up for a seat?

Wouldn't surprise me, he's doing alright in ELMS, although he might need a bit more experience before he moves up

[v8supes]

Not sure if this is the best place to post this. If not then please could it be moved by a mod to the correct place so that as many fans as possible can fill it out.

WEC/ACO have launched an official fan survey similar to the F1 one so that YOU can share your views on the championship.

Not sure if they will act on anything that the fans want but it cant hurt to fill it out.

https://fiawec-global-fan-survey-202...rtnetwork.com/

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by v8supes

Not sure if this is the best place to post this. If not then please could it be moved by a mod to the correct place so that as many fans as possible can fill it out.

WEC/ACO have launched an official fan survey similar to the F1 one so that YOU can share your views on the championship.

Not sure if they will act on anything that the fans want but it cant hurt to fill it out.

https://fiawec-global-fan-survey-202...rtnetwork.com/

Ooo, I got an email about this today. Then I forgot about it!

I'll give it a go.