That FIA thing

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman in another thread.

I race in CTRCC and and I could not be bothered with all the FIA this and FIA that stuff and associated expenses (see other thread 'They want how much!') to race in other series (and my car is a 1971 model) but I still love old cars from my era when I was fixing them for the road or preparing them for the track.

The above post (sorry if you think I'm picking on you here Al), is not quite correct. It concerns me that people will be put off unless things are clear.

Al's post refers to a couple of things, one is the HTP or Historic Technical Passport and the other is the FIA regulation for racing (which include Appendix K etc.)

Taking the HTP first. You only need this if you wish to register your car as an FIA standard homologated car. It does not need to be an original racer but can be a car built from a similar model (mine was a 1600 until I got hold of it).

The second point concerns where you race. Certainly the CTCRC races do not require any FIA regs other than those in the Blue Book. However the FIA requirements are being applied to all racing (by stealth) so it won't be long before the UK club racer is exposed to the same requirements as other European racers. Right now though unless you wish to race at an FIA event (i.e Spa 6 hrs) a car built to CTCRC Post Historic or Group 1 regs does not need an HTP or FIA standard equipment (other than the Blue Book requirements).

So, let's not be too negative you can still run your car with CTCRC or Top Hat or HSCC at any UK event and you don't need an HTP for cars built from 1971 onwards unless you want to race in the FIA touring Cars Championship. (But then you'd need to build it to those regs anyway).

[zefarelly]

well said

its also worth noting (IMHO) that if your preparing a new car it doesn't actually cost much if any more to comply with the FiA regs and you have the peace of mind that you have the best safety standards, your car will be more saleable and useable by virtue of the fact it can be raced anywhere.

[Al Weyman]

Yes thats Ok if you are building a new car.

However the FIA requirements are being applied to all racing (by stealth) so it won't be long before the UK club racer is exposed to the same requirements as other European racers.

Well I reckon the way they are going they will be lucky if there is enough guys about to do the sport. I was only talking at the weekend to a long time racer who is getting extremelly fed up with the goalpost moving each year, this year new belts (his american spec ones are like new but no in the bin) New Transponder (has a Chronit), new fire extinguiser (original Hand Held), seat although custom made for him and very expensive will no doubt have to go, smaller diameter cage will also eventually go and the way he was talking he had enough of it. And there are many like him out there, push too hard and they won't have a sport left to lord over as many can find much better things to spend time and money on.

Oh as for TopHat Pete I would like a go but can't be asked to change my fuel tank and I get a bit knackerad after about 20 minutes, its an age thing you know, and don't suggest a driver change as it takes me 10 minutes to get in and out the thing.

[Peter Horsman]

A view could be that, if there was no club historic racing, the FIA wouldn't mind awfully because they are only interested in the racing which gives them the big bucks. The problems that our historic representatives have on the FIA historic committees sound as though someone is in Fairyland.

PS That I have to get a special form to be completed by a doctor to allow me to use an asthma inhaler beggars belief.

[Al Weyman]

If they don't need us then it begs the question do we need them?

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

If they don't need us then it begs the question do we need them?

I'm right with you there Al...

[Tim Falce]

I was going to start a thread for this but here may do.
There may be a chance of a 1 hour race at Spa in June, (Millers Oils British sports vs saloon challenge) I think the Sept31st/October 1st one is cancelled and this will replace it if it goes ahead.
What will I need to do with my car to be able to enter, I have been told it will run to UK Nat B regs but I am not to sure and would hate to go all the way out there to be turned away at scrutineering.

[Peter Mallett]

Is this a Barry Sideways race?

Also it depends who is running the meeting. The Spa 6hrs meeting is a full FIA meeting thus it runs to FIA regs. If you are running at a BRAVO event (and I'd check with Barry first) the scrutes will probably be british and will work to the Blue Book.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Is this a Barry Sideways race?

That's the one.

[Peter Mallett]

What's the date?

[zefarelly]

I've no doubt American equipment is every bit as good as european, BUT we're in Europe, therefore unless your stupid ( no offence anyone here) why would you buy safety equipment that doesn't comply with our regulations aside the fact that it either looks good or costs less ???

as for the FiA I can take it or leave it personally, as amateurs they don't really relate to us, and most of us cannot afford their own series, or want to play in them. BUT again, its a europe/world wide organisation which means if I play ball by their regs I can play away, to coin a phrase. Silverstone Stowe circuit doesn't appeal . . .Spa does !

[Peter Mallett]

C'mon Zef tell us what you really think.

[Al Weyman]

Silverstone Stowe circuit doesn't appeal . . .Spa does !

Who does like the Stowe Go Kart circuit Zef I won't race there as said before I like to get out of second gear, how does that equate to the argument. What about Thruxton, Donington, Brands Gp, Cadwell, Oulton, Cadwell, Coombe, even good old Snetterton and the Silverston National is not all bad and I have the opportunity within the calenders to race on all of these and more this year. Anyhow I think I would have to install sat nav to find me way around Spa :-)

American belts, first to make three inch (?) , designed to survive 200 plus mph crashes into solid brick walls, what can be wrong with them.

[Peter Mallett]

The SNELL foundation is of course American and is the FIA standard testing service.

Simpson is a well known FIA approved manufacturer. I don't think Zef was referring to those products at all.

[Al Weyman]

Well maybe he could be more specific, surely he was not referring to my old tubs?:-) i did have a Silverstone scrut question the laminated windscreen that has been fitted by me personally for what 15 or 16 years and passed dozens of inspections and is definitely laminated as the yanks don't make toughened ones!

[Peter Mallett]

I can't speak for Zef however you were lamenting your friend's plight and referred to his "American Spec Belts" as being "like new" but the FIA required them to be replaced.

Of course this has happened to many of us and my Luke harness (which I believe is British) was in my posession for two years but had to be replaced due to manufacturing cut off dates (and this was explained by MidgetMan previously) because the material can decay with age and thus rather than allow us to risk our necks the organisations have applied a formula to make us change components.

You'll find the same applies to UK racing now.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

What's the date?

1st weekend in June I think.

[midgetman]

OK I've searched Google for Barry S-S, BRAVO, Millers Oils Classic Cars, I give up. Anyone got Barry's contacts? I've lost them.

Spa race looks kind of fun for the Midget.

Peter H said: >>>PS That I have to get a special form to be completed by a doctor to allow me to use an asthma inhaler beggars belief.

Oh really, musta missed that bit on the form.

[Eddy V]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

What's the date?

Most likely June 2-4, Euroraces, if it is in June.
But there is a Historic Meeting planned as well for July 14-16.

[zefarelly]

my point was if its recognised then it'll get approved, if not, it won't simple really

just because some trailer trash survives a 200mph shunt because he can't turn corners doesn't mean anything

and I did say they make good stuff, but why buy it if its not on the approved list, you don't run your road car on US crossplies just because theyre cheaper ? (actually lots of chelsea tractors do !!!)

the out of date issue is another issue entirely, we all have to comply with it. one just needs to be prudent when purchasing.

[Al Weyman]

Trailer trash Zef? Thats a bit strong surely, even in jest, I'd hate to upset you.

[Peter Horsman]

Midgetman, best zap onto the MSA website to try to decypher whether it's relevant to you.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by midgetman

OK I've searched Google for Barry S-S, BRAVO, Millers Oils Classic Cars, I give up. Anyone got Barry's contacts? I've lost them.

Details pm'd.

[midgetman]

Peter M - thank you, received safely

Peter H - did read it, took an executive decision

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Trailer trash Zef? Thats a bit strong surely, even in jest, I'd hate to upset you.

yeah ok, not trailer trash necessarily, but they still don't do corners