Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing > North American Racing

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 5 May 2023, 12:33 (Ref:4154596)   #1
JT240Z
Racer
 
JT240Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
United States
Geogria
Posts: 396
JT240Z should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJT240Z should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Veggie The pro-speech dedicated IMSA BoP to let the other threads be free!

This whole BoP thing just drives me crazy. Takes all of the power and skills of the teams out of the picture. The better they make their product perform the more they bet BoPed for it.
JT240Z is offline  
Quote
Old 5 May 2023, 12:39 (Ref:4154599)   #2
broadrun96
Veteran
 
broadrun96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 11,215
broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT240Z View Post
This whole BoP thing just drives me crazy. Takes all of the power and skills of the teams out of the picture. The better they make their product perform the more they bet BoPed for it.
You know it is a homologated product right? The team isn't doing much to "make it better" as much as learn how to drive and manage the car. They aren't getting BoP based on finishing order
broadrun96 is offline  
Quote
Old 5 May 2023, 12:49 (Ref:4154603)   #3
JT240Z
Racer
 
JT240Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
United States
Geogria
Posts: 396
JT240Z should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJT240Z should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadrun96 View Post
You know it is a homologated product right? The team isn't doing much to "make it better" as much as learn how to drive and manage the car. They aren't getting BoP based on finishing order
Homologated is another word for performance limited. Based on ???????????? Too much of that in my opinion. If a car is slow then it's slow. Leave it up to the teams to find where their hidden performance increases are. They spec out the cars to begin with and then every car goes through the initial homologation process for approval. That should have taken care of "making it fair". Too much of a possibility of favoritism in the new BoP rules. BMW gets an edge based on crappy performance on the track. I loved the days where performance was engineered by the teams.
JT240Z is offline  
Quote
Old 5 May 2023, 14:12 (Ref:4154614)   #4
broadrun96
Veteran
 
broadrun96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 11,215
broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Yeah, and that era went where exactly?? Oh yeah, blew up in its face and ended each and every time it has been tried. Thanks, I'd prefer 20 years of racing over 4 years of the same team and costs rising and rising until everyone leaves
broadrun96 is offline  
Quote
Old 5 May 2023, 15:20 (Ref:4154627)   #5
JT240Z
Racer
 
JT240Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
United States
Geogria
Posts: 396
JT240Z should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJT240Z should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I still prefer a time where sports car racing was an example of engineering prowess. Races like Sebring and Le Mans were perfect examples of engineering successes and failures. Le Mans lasted more than your stated 4-year period long before BoP existed. The American Le Mans series lasted years as well without the race-to-race changes of BoP. As a race car fan I can have my opinion. Do we have to live with BoP? Yes, but it doesn't mean that we can't have our opinions on how it's being implemented.
JT240Z is offline  
Quote
Old 5 May 2023, 15:30 (Ref:4154631)   #6
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 42,425
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Dessert

Quote:
Originally Posted by JT240Z View Post
Yes, but it doesn't mean that we can't have our opinions on how it's being implemented.
And this is the thread for it!
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
Quote
Old 5 May 2023, 16:06 (Ref:4154641)   #7
JT240Z
Racer
 
JT240Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
United States
Geogria
Posts: 396
JT240Z should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJT240Z should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
OK, so what is the purpose of such minor BoP changes and what determines when changes are needed?
JT240Z is offline  
Quote
Old 5 May 2023, 16:36 (Ref:4154644)   #8
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 42,425
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Have a think. What are they trying to do? And what does it mean if the changes are small?

These are tweaks. They are trying to manage something that they are pretty happy with, but want to be more happy with! IMSA will have seen something that justifies this. It will be based on data they have, probably more than lap times.

I guess that the stint energy is the easiest to assess, followed by power, then the weight (which is combined with the others to produce performance). In ACO hypercar they also throw more of the aero into the original understanding, but don’t adjust.

The time to worry is when it is a big adjustment!

I must admit, I prefer the longer periods of no adjustment we see in WEC. However, IMSA have been doing similar for some time with similar cars and it is just their style of approach to this. Hypercar is a little newer in concept, so understand that data more before going mad. Although I like their bigger gaps.

Last edited by Adam43; 5 May 2023 at 16:41.
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
Quote
Old 5 May 2023, 17:11 (Ref:4154647)   #9
JT240Z
Racer
 
JT240Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
United States
Geogria
Posts: 396
JT240Z should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJT240Z should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The problem I see is that IMSA is not being very transparent on the criteria for BoP changes. If the changes are being implemented based on empirical data, then it should be pretty easy to allow others to see what the data is indicating and what the goal is. All of these "minor" changes do add up.

EDIT: I know it's apples and oranges, but it reminds me of the NASCAR CoT cars where safety, reduced cost and equal competition were the primary goals. Didn't fair well for them. The cars became too generic and lacked the fan loyalty to the brand.

Last edited by JT240Z; 5 May 2023 at 17:17.
JT240Z is offline  
Quote
Old 5 May 2023, 20:40 (Ref:4154660)   #10
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 42,425
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I’d love them to show us the detail of the why. That would be great.

But it wouldn’t be “pretty easy”. Who’s actually ready to be reasonable when digesting it? To make the effort to understand the methodology? Let alone be equipped to understand it all?

Do all of these little changes “add up”? They go up and down and it is honed. (See the last five attached). No, they are tweaked, but aren’t additive.

Also, and I am guessing here, IMSA would like to make lots of small changes to stop wild swings. Which is what many don’t want.

The whole point of what IMSA and ACO is doing it’s to avoid the NASCAR example of making all the cars the same. This allows the variety and the engineering to still play a part while also keeping the field super close.

That’s their aim and, while it will never be absolutely perfect, it is delivering on that. They will continue to chase the perfection and the way you do that is by continually making minor changes and tweaking. As any good engineer will tell you.
Attached Thumbnails
D0772BAC-EDCF-42A7-8379-429A1FD3B3AA.jpeg   C1701BDE-26F0-4F02-9268-9F2FD034B140.jpeg   78050A67-BF34-4286-98C0-7D03339FF60E.jpeg  

Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
Quote
Old 5 May 2023, 20:41 (Ref:4154661)   #11
joeb
Race Official
Veteran
 
joeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United States
Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 15,594
joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam43 View Post
Have a think. What are they trying to do? And what does it mean if the changes are small?

These are tweaks. They are trying to manage something that they are pretty happy with, but want to be more happy with! IMSA will have seen something that justifies this. It will be based on data they have, probably more than lap times.
You're right, I think it is a formula based thing, so IMSA officials aren't deciding to make changes, but instead they decided to use this mathematics approach that is fed by data loggers in the car. The math told them to make small changes.

It is fine, as long as they don't mess with the fake fuel fill thing I think the fans will be happy!
joeb is offline  
Quote
Old 5 May 2023, 20:43 (Ref:4154662)   #12
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 42,425
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeb View Post
… I think the fans will be happy!
There is nothing that IMSA can do to make the fans happy! There is nothing anyone can do
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
Quote
Old 5 May 2023, 21:28 (Ref:4154664)   #13
broadrun96
Veteran
 
broadrun96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 11,215
broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeb View Post
You're right, I think it is a formula based thing, so IMSA officials aren't deciding to make changes, but instead they decided to use this mathematics approach that is fed by data loggers in the car. The math told them to make small changes.



It is fine, as long as they don't mess with the fake fuel fill thing I think the fans will be happy!
I think it's fighting the different track makeup too. I'm not a fan of that part though, just let some cars do better at "flowing" tracks and others can do better at point and squirt running.

But I'm also guessing those with the knowledge depth know why the changes are made and what the result will be there. IMSA isn't really interested in the fan knows why the change and explanations probably would not come easily.
broadrun96 is offline  
Quote
Old 5 May 2023, 21:29 (Ref:4154665)   #14
broadrun96
Veteran
 
broadrun96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 11,215
broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam43 View Post
There is nothing that IMSA can do to make the fans happy! There is nothing anyone can do
I think they've taken the they're angry anyway so why waste more time, this is what we're doing and the teams know why approach
broadrun96 is offline  
Quote
Old 5 May 2023, 21:31 (Ref:4154666)   #15
broadrun96
Veteran
 
broadrun96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 11,215
broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT240Z View Post
EDIT: I know it's apples and oranges, but it reminds me of the NASCAR CoT cars where safety, reduced cost and equal competition were the primary goals. Didn't fair well for them. The cars became too generic and lacked the fan loyalty to the brand.
I think that's kind of picking on a car that's literally not much different than the preceding car in terms of distance from the street version. It was just the easy thing to pick on, same as stages now. Neither went well but they're the easiest things to pick out
broadrun96 is offline  
Quote
Old 5 May 2023, 22:15 (Ref:4154670)   #16
seanyb505
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
United States
Simpsonville, SC
Posts: 1,864
seanyb505 is going for a new world record!seanyb505 is going for a new world record!seanyb505 is going for a new world record!seanyb505 is going for a new world record!seanyb505 is going for a new world record!seanyb505 is going for a new world record!seanyb505 is going for a new world record!
The sooner you can accept this motor racing thing has devolved to marketing and being able to market your product, the better. The point isn't to let the engineering brains go crazy. It's to give a platform that you can sell to a board.

Should we go racing here? Are we going to have a decent (not fair) chance at seeing success? Yes? Ok let's go here's your budget, it's small. No? Ok don't do it.

The series realizes what conversations the factory teams are facing, and has amended the ruleset to make it an easier sell in the board room. More board rooms on track means more 3rd party board rooms want to dump money into advertising. See fox factory, sargento cheese, etc.

We as the fans are in an oxy moronic place. We think a faster car equals a better show. Better show equals more fans and therefore more advertising roi. Psyche! Participants (which we are not. Repeat. Buying a ticket or tuning in is not participating) prefer an equal opportunity to feature in the motorsport event. If they're guaranteed an off podium, thanks for running type consolation prize, they're not going to show up next year. Now imagine that's bmw.
seanyb505 is offline  
Quote
Old 6 May 2023, 02:14 (Ref:4154675)   #17
broadrun96
Veteran
 
broadrun96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 11,215
broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Well it's not even just that it's marketing, it's that marketing has changed because we as consumers have. Hell Enzo said he only would cars cause rich people would buy his cars and fund more racing. And he didn't really have polite things to say about those buyers it seems.

And sorry but the minority "anorak" racing fans who want the "purity of the sport" aren't the majority or even a measurable minority. I can see MB racing posters from the street in Buckhead Atlanta with the AMG GT3, the actual on track success isn't as important as advertising they race that car you can buy.

I chose to enjoy the cars on track and just love the smell of being burning dead dinosaurs and hanging out with others who enjoy it, and leave the politics of it to the side. They're bringing me a fun product to watch and making cars that then appear in Historics and I get to enjoy them 3 times a year at my local. Ok my local track is Road Atlanta so I'm spoiled there.


Watch Group 2 or 3 of HSR, they're about 1:45 plus around Road Atlanta for the best of them. But I watched them every time around the track last weekend, and likely will again in the fall. Group 2 is 914s, 911 early model base motor, Austin Healy and MGs and other cars with engines anyone can carry under their arm. Still watch, ok some of that is interesting cars but LMP3 does the same. Interesting cars and different look between Ligier and Norma (or whatever, Duqueine I think) but they make a good noise.

But I'm a simple man, cars, smell of burning fuel and trackside I'm happy. No rain and it's a good day

Last edited by broadrun96; 6 May 2023 at 02:19.
broadrun96 is offline  
Quote
Old 6 May 2023, 17:14 (Ref:4154720)   #18
JT240Z
Racer
 
JT240Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
United States
Geogria
Posts: 396
JT240Z should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJT240Z should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I have to admit that this has been a very depressing topic. To think that fans aren't even considered in the scheme of things saddens me.
JT240Z is offline  
Quote
Old 6 May 2023, 17:46 (Ref:4154726)   #19
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 42,425
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I don’t understand what you mean by this.

They’re trying to make a successful race series. For that they need a good attractive rule set. Then the fans can watch and enjoy.

And I’ve quite enjoyed the topic. Helped me think about it more and why it came to be.
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
Quote
Old 6 May 2023, 18:43 (Ref:4154731)   #20
veeten
Veteran
 
veeten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
United States
Temple Hills, Md.
Posts: 2,000
veeten should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridveeten should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
It's more so that he is in that place that many of us were long ago. Enthusiastic, but still motivated by what they see on the TV, and not understand as to why things are.

What is the difference? We chose to do just what our teachers told us long ago.... "Do your homework...." Research and investigation. Getting all the information that you can, so as you can come to an informed opinion, not just an opinion. It is the difference in the answers given in this thread. The reason, as I see it, is that he's depressed is that there's a lot more to the sport than just watching and cheering for a specific team or car.

Give him time, he'll figure it out...
veeten is offline  
__________________
Here's to the new age of Sports car/Prototypes...
Quote
Old 6 May 2023, 19:05 (Ref:4154733)   #21
Speed-King
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location:
Wuerzburg,Germany
Posts: 7,325
Speed-King has a real shot at the podium!Speed-King has a real shot at the podium!Speed-King has a real shot at the podium!Speed-King has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by veeten View Post
It's more so that he is in that place that many of us were long ago. Enthusiastic, but still motivated by what they see on the TV, and not understand as to why things are.

What is the difference? We chose to do just what our teachers told us long ago.... "Do your homework...." Research and investigation. Getting all the information that you can, so as you can come to an informed opinion, not just an opinion. It is the difference in the answers given in this thread. The reason, as I see it, is that he's depressed is that there's a lot more to the sport than just watching and cheering for a specific team or car.

Give him time, he'll figure it out...
Naw, I never enjoyed sportscar racing more than back in 2005/06 when - having only followed F1 and touring cars so far - I knew nothing about the politics and everything was new and wonderful.

"Doing my homework" and learning more has only sucked the fun out of it.
Speed-King is offline  
__________________
Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam.
Quote
Old 6 May 2023, 19:14 (Ref:4154735)   #22
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 42,425
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I see that! The trick then is to just enjoy the racing and not bother with the rest. In which case this approach is designed for you!
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
Quote
Old 6 May 2023, 19:15 (Ref:4154736)   #23
JT240Z
Racer
 
JT240Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
United States
Geogria
Posts: 396
JT240Z should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJT240Z should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
It does seem that the politics behind the scenes has made the appreciation of the product on the track just a tad diminished. I use to love the idea of the cars and teams developing their products and fine tuning their systems to achieve maximum performance. Never really thought too much about how the specs changed daily to limit/enhance the products they were developing.
JT240Z is offline  
Quote
Old 6 May 2023, 19:18 (Ref:4154737)   #24
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 42,425
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
IMSA came into being because of politics behind the scene!

Not sure how this rule set demonstrates this particularly!? Have we got to the bottom why the fans aren’t even considered?
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
Quote
Old 6 May 2023, 19:40 (Ref:4154743)   #25
JT240Z
Racer
 
JT240Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
United States
Geogria
Posts: 396
JT240Z should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJT240Z should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
It's all about the money and not about the entertainment value. Got it.;
JT240Z is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Speech! Speech!!! kelvin88 National & Club Racing 1 30 Oct 2007 19:57


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.