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Old 4 Apr 2002, 16:04 (Ref:251853)   #1
BD
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Sauber engine for next year...

If in fact Ferrari are using the revolutionary gearbox/engine package, what does Sauber get for next year?
My guess is that they would get the updated version of last years motor that Barrichello used in Brazil.

Anybody know?
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Old 4 Apr 2002, 18:14 (Ref:251959)   #2
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I read somewhere that they were given (the option to buy?)Oz 2001 engines half way through last season, because they were doing so well. Alain Prost was not so lucky...
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Old 5 Apr 2002, 02:59 (Ref:252390)   #3
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Re: Sauber engine for next year...

Engine & gearbox are of different package. Sauber's gearbox are developed and supplied by Sach Race Engineering. This years engine Sauber are using are from last year's September revamped engine.

But Sauber do get some new technology breakthroughs from Ferrari though. The new brake system that draws away the brake dust from the hub for an example.
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Old 5 Apr 2002, 03:07 (Ref:252394)   #4
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Re: Re: Sauber engine for next year...

Quote:
Originally posted by Jukebox
Engine & gearbox are of different package. Sauber's gearbox are developed and supplied by Sach Race Engineering. This years engine Sauber are using are from last year's September revamped engine.
But next year if they get this years engine, if the gearbox the hightech gearbox...what will they use, are ferrari going to supply them with the gearbox also...are they going to release that technology....or are they going to be able to adapt a standard gearbox like they have now?
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Old 5 Apr 2002, 03:30 (Ref:252399)   #5
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Re: Re: Re: Sauber engine for next year...

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Originally posted by mariov


But next year if they get this years engine, if the gearbox the hightech gearbox...what will they use, are ferrari going to supply them with the gearbox also...are they going to release that technology....or are they going to be able to adapt a standard gearbox like they have now?

The function of a clutch & gearbox is to transfer the power transmissions to the wheels and clutches act as the middleman to the gearbox. Although the engine is directly linked to the clutch then to the gearbox, the clutchless system introduced by Ferrari is of separate entity with the entire engine package.

There are rumours saying that they've developed the new gearbox with the help of Sach...who knows Sauber might get the same treatment as well as they had had a long relationship with Sach. Provided there's no clause in the agreement between Sach & Ferrari.

Last edited by Jukebox; 5 Apr 2002 at 03:33.
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Old 5 Apr 2002, 05:51 (Ref:252451)   #6
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Inigo Montoya has a real shot at the championship!Inigo Montoya has a real shot at the championship!Inigo Montoya has a real shot at the championship!Inigo Montoya has a real shot at the championship!Inigo Montoya has a real shot at the championship!Inigo Montoya has a real shot at the championship!
Juke, I think that in the new Ferrari, the clutch, gearbox, and engine are all one unit. That is why this question has been raised.
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Old 5 Apr 2002, 06:53 (Ref:252465)   #7
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This is what sauber will be getting for a price tag of USD25 million
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Jukebox; 5 Apr 2002 at 07:00.
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Old 5 Apr 2002, 06:53 (Ref:252466)   #8
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f1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
If it works out easier, Ferrari may just give them the engine/gearbox unit, but allow Saubers current gearbox manufacturer to oversee the fixing and development of it.
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Old 5 Apr 2002, 07:51 (Ref:252486)   #9
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It'll be great f1manoz if Ferrari let Sach do that for Sauber. But if they want to keep it a secret from the other teams then i don see that ever gonna happen because there had been talks that the F2002 revs is up to 19,000rpm.
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Old 5 Apr 2002, 08:05 (Ref:252490)   #10
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i know for a fact that ferrari dont allow saubers engine man, osamu goto, to touch the internals of the engines.
maybe there scared he might get more power out of the old units as they are getting from their current engines!!!!!
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Old 6 Apr 2002, 00:50 (Ref:253109)   #11
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I heard last year that Sauber had found an extra 10hp out of the customer unit. Not huge, but I dont see how they could have achieved this without altering the engine internals.
How could Ferrari keep Sauber out of the engine?
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Old 6 Apr 2002, 00:54 (Ref:253112)   #12
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i think they found the extra 10bhp through things like the airbox and the placement of ancillary drives and so on.
i'm sure ferrari have a representative in the sauber engine department for "supervisory" purposes
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Old 6 Apr 2002, 01:07 (Ref:253117)   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by BD
I heard last year that Sauber had found an extra 10hp out of the customer unit.
You mean to say from the engine supplied by the Ferrari and they did some modifications on it?
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Old 6 Apr 2002, 02:02 (Ref:253136)   #14
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Could someone please confirm!!!I've heard statements from people at ferrari that they DON'T have a one piece engine/box!!And isn't this banned by the FIA anyway?!The ONLY thing roughly confirmed by ferrari as far as i can see is that they've moved the clutch from the front of the gearbox to the diff(they're using the pressure plates in the diff as a clutch).The truth please!!
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Old 6 Apr 2002, 02:16 (Ref:253144)   #15
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That is a good question BD. Jordan and BAR dont go into the engine at all that is what the Honda guys are for. In the case of engines that are bought who rebuilds the motors after each race? Who does the fixes and so on?
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Old 6 Apr 2002, 02:33 (Ref:253153)   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by RWC
Could someone please confirm!!!I've heard statements from people at ferrari that they DON'T have a one piece engine/box!!And isn't this banned by the FIA anyway?!The ONLY thing roughly confirmed by ferrari as far as i can see is that they've moved the clutch from the front of the gearbox to the diff(they're using the pressure plates in the diff as a clutch).The truth please!!
I don know how many times do i need to repeat this in so many diff threads....they removed the clutch entirelly and uses electro-hydraulic differential to perform the operation of the standard clutch.

i give up...
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Old 6 Apr 2002, 04:25 (Ref:253162)   #17
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That's what i said Jukebox,maybe unclearly.The question was:Are the engine and gearbox one unit?
Don't the rules forbid it?

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Old 6 Apr 2002, 04:37 (Ref:253169)   #18
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Separate unit RWC....see the pic i pasted earlier..that's their F051 engine for their F2002 car.
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Old 6 Apr 2002, 04:44 (Ref:253174)   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by neilap
That is a good question BD. Jordan and BAR dont go into the engine at all that is what the Honda guys are for. In the case of engines that are bought who rebuilds the motors after each race? Who does the fixes and so on?
i think sauber leases the engines, as opposed to buying them
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Old 6 Apr 2002, 04:53 (Ref:253180)   #20
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oh another thing....the engine & the gearbox is integrated with a solid block of removable castings replacing the conventional clutch bellhousing.

How could you lease the engine for USD25million if you don own it? that's why Osamu Goto is there...he's from Ferrari before he joined Sauber
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Old 6 Apr 2002, 05:08 (Ref:253182)   #21
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when williams and benetton were using the supertec and paying big dollars, they were only leased.
sauber do not "own" the engines.what they are paying for is the use of the engines and technical support.
just look at prost, he doesnt have any of the ferrari engines he used last year.
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Old 6 Apr 2002, 05:17 (Ref:253185)   #22
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if you lease the engines...then you can't rebadge them can't you?

Petronas bought the engines for Sauber so that they can study and further develop the engines. There's the Sauber Petronas Enggineering for R&D on commercial motorcycles and roadcar engines.

The FP1 engine used by the Foggy Petronas WSBK team was initially developed by SP eng. for motogp but later Petronas transformed it for supebikes specifications.

Last edited by Jukebox; 6 Apr 2002 at 05:20.
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Old 6 Apr 2002, 06:37 (Ref:253197)   #23
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calais should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
benetton leased the supertecs and called them "playlife"
prost leased the ferrari engines and called them "acer", so the naming rights is more a monetary issue than anything else.{ that throws your explanation out the window!!!!!}
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Old 7 Apr 2002, 04:47 (Ref:253933)   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by calais
i think they found the extra 10bhp through things like the airbox and the placement of ancillary drives and so on.
i'm sure ferrari have a representative in the sauber engine department for "supervisory" purposes
Pure speculation.

Neilap,
The only engines rebuilt are the ones used for practice and qualifying. Ferrari does this.
The engines for the races are brand new.
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Old 7 Apr 2002, 11:06 (Ref:254026)   #25
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Maybe another try for Sauber Mercedes?
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