Engine rule clarified?

[Marbot]

It seems that teams will now have to prove they have a problem with their engine if they retire their car from a GP as BAR did.www.grandprix.com/ns/ns14398.html

[touringlegend]

Surely they can create a 'self destruct' button then if they're 9th and want a new engine ?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Surely they can create a 'self destruct' button then if they're 9th and want a new engine ?

I'm sure they can and will.

[ASCII Man]

It is not clear why the clarification has been deemed necessary.

Because Ferrari said so?
Nah, too cynical...

Or not?

[Adam43]

I'd like to see an actual source or quote from someone on this. Only then can we understand this in context.

I've seen nothing elsewhere and no quotes. Apart from a story that Toyota are agsinst it, but that is not the source of this.

[BootsOntheSide]

Surely there's nothing to prevent drivers 'accidentally' over-riding a rev limiter, or teams programming something to let them disable it at a pitstop (emergency stop 2 laps from the end due to (fictitious) rising engine temperatures?).

[pitcrew]

o course they are going to take full advantage of these new rules, they will probably start having a switch to switch of the oil supply, pump etc

[Adam43]

Again there is no indication that anything has changed apart from grandprix.com speculating. Until we here something from the FIA or other relevant source we can't begin to speculate what this will change, if anything. As I said Toyota are complaining, but that is it at the moment. This may change: http://news.google.co.uk/news?hl=en&...engine+rule+f1

[Kempi]

Blown engines backfire on the manufacturer. Mercedes had quite a bit too listen to the last couple of years. "Silvertorches" are only one of the many nicknames they have gotten. So I doubt that a manufacturer would be willing to go that route. They would either be branded as cheaters or as bad engineers (or both).

[M Coupe]

I don't see the problem with the way BAR have interpretated the rule.

Sure they have nice new engines in Malaysia, however when everyone else has new engines in Bahrain BAR will have used ones so they are at a supposed disadvantage there.

[pitcrew]

but in the same boat as schuey as he had a dnf, so now there is a heigh possibility that rubens will have it a race before the number 1 driver!

[Kicking-back]

Schumacher will not use a new engine in Malaysia.

[Adam43]

I ddin't know that, I just assumed he would. So can we read anything thing into that which affects the introduction of the F2005? It is coming in after a even numbered race and both of them are getting it?

[Super Tourer]

FIA Press Release.

http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press...160305-01.html


2005 FIA FORMULA ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP
CLARIFICATION: TWO-RACE ENGINES
16.03.2005

“Each driver may use no more than one engine for two consecutive Events. Should it become necessary for a driver to use another engine he will drop ten places on the starting grid at that Event and may not use another engine until the end of the next Event. Any driver who failed to finish the race at the first of the two Events may start the second with a different engine without incurring a penalty.”

The purpose of including the final sentence in the first paragraph of Article 85 of the 2005 Formula One Sporting Regulations was to ensure that if a driver failed to finish the first of two races he would not be penalised in the second if the engine was changed, the principle being that failing to finish a race was sufficient penalty.

As a result of what happened on the last lap of the race in Melbourne a distinction will now be made between failing to finish and choosing not to finish, the former is normally accidental or beyond the control of the driver while the latter is not.

In order to ensure the purpose of the regulation is fully respected, and unless the reason is completely clear, in future we will require the team of any driver who fails to finish the first of two races to explain the circumstances surrounding the retirement to the Stewards of the meeting.

[Super Tourer]

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=23798

Pitpass is speculating on whether both BAR's will be penalised 10 grid slots due to the teams 'blatant exploitation' of the rule.

[Adam43]

Off topic: I must say I find it a shame that I practically ignored the grandprix.com article. Although there was nothing really in that to give evidence. It was on the money though - reminds me of 'cry wolf' though with current GP news!

On topic: It'll be interesting to see if this clarification is applied retrospectively. Clarifications are different to changes.

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by M Coupe

I don't see the problem with the way BAR have interpretated the rule.

Sure they have nice new engines in Malaysia, however when everyone else has new engines in Bahrain BAR will have used ones so they are at a supposed disadvantage there.

Don't think it's like that.

Everyone will have a new motor in Bahrain as part of the standard two race cycle, I think?

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

Don't think it's like that.

Everyone will have a new motor in Bahrain as part of the standard two race cycle, I think?

No, they won't.

Each time you change an engine, it starts a new two-race cycle for you.

So:

ROUND 1: ENGINE A FAILS
ROUND 2: ENGINE B
ROUND 3: ENGINE B
ROUND 4: ENGINE C

Whereas your competitor may go:

ROUND 1: ENGINE A
ROUND 2: ENGINE A
ROUND 3: ENGINE B
ROUND 4: ENGINE B

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by Super Tourer

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=23798

Pitpass is speculating on whether both BAR's will be penalised 10 grid slots due to the teams 'blatant exploitation' of the rule.

I would say they won't be penalised - as they didn't do anything outwith the rules AS THEY STOOD AT THE TIME.

Anyway - BAR may well not change their engines - they just gave themselves the option to do so.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

I would say they won't be penalised - as they didn't do anything outwith the rules AS THEY STOOD AT THE TIME.

My guess is they won't be penalised, but it is a rule clarification, not change.

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Anyway - BAR may well not change their engines - they just gave themselves the option to do so.

I presume they submitted their engines for the second FIA seal that is applied to the engine after the first event?

[pitcrew]

all will soon become apparent, but im sure i read someware that schumi was having a new engine this weekend!

[rameire]

Very unsporting of them I must say, using the rules to Cheat sportmanship.

OK another example of this kind of rule in another Sport.

Compare it to a football match, lets say Man utd are loosing 10 nil to Bolton,
and Fergie the Dolphin goes "comon lads try and get 5 of yees sent off",
and they do so,
Now due to there being less then 7 playes on the Man Utd team playing,
the game has to be cancelled and due to this the other team will have won the match by default,
which by default will give them a 2 nill win not a 10 nill win.
You dont see this happen at all,
Why?, because it is not sporting.

[pitcrew]

yes but there would be nothing in it for man u, but with f1 they get to have a new engine for the next race

[rameire]

Goal Difference,
if you finish the season on same points as another team, they use goal difference, to decide who is ahead of who.
So they would not be down by 10 goals only 2.

[davester]

A simpler fix than the FIA's subjective investigation would be the imposition of a 30kg weight penalty for the entire following event, following an engine change before the completion of two full events. A simple rule without prejudice to cause.