Testing the week of a GP

jhansen · 19 Apr 2005, 23:02 (Ref:1282584)

I don't claim to understand the rules in regards to testing. But I was under the impression that a team could not run more than 50km the week of a grand prix. I have no idea if that is 50km per day, or 50km for the week. But that was the way I understood it.

So I just read a Ferrari press release on f1.racing-live.com.

Ferrari put in 500km of tire testing today at Monza. Apparently they tested Monday and will test on Wednesday as well. But Imola is this weekend. Is there even a rule about this?

Side note: Bridgestone must be working overtime!

Article:

http://f1.racing-live.com/en/index.html

"Continuing the test programme started yesterday at Monza, the Ferrari team were back on track today at the Italian circuit.

Test driver Luca Badoer continued with development work on Bridgestone tyres for the next stage of the season, covering over five hundred kilometres in the F2004 M on a track which was modified with the addition of two artificial chicanes.

The team continue at the circuit on Wednesday with Marc Gene on track, while Luca Badoer will move to Fiorano for the shakedown of the cars to be used in the San Marino Grand Prix this weekend. "

E.A.
Source Ferrari

JeremySmith · 20 Apr 2005, 00:05 (Ref:1282602)

Well the whole testing situation as far as Ferrari are concerned seems completly against the rules that have been laid down by the FIA all the other teams seem to abide by the rules except Ferrari who seem to make there own rules when it comes to testing. I don't realy understand it either, but I know that one of our esteem members will explain.

**Dani Filth** · 20 Apr 2005, 00:14 (Ref:1282604)

if its a FIA rule . they would act on it ... the other teams would make the FIA act on it .

JeremySmith · 20 Apr 2005, 00:29 (Ref:1282610)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dani Filth

if its a FIA rule . they would act on it ... the other teams would make the FIA act on it .

What are you saying then Dani? Could you please explain

**Dani Filth** · 20 Apr 2005, 00:45 (Ref:1282614)

i don't know if they are breaking a FIA rule ...

maybe there's a loophole .. as is written in the article they've tested with the F2004M and plan to do the shakedown of the cars that will be raced .. the F2005 later . maybe they are allowed to test the 2004M it was probably tyre testing ... i don't know what exactly the rule specifies

Dixie Flatline · 20 Apr 2005, 01:05 (Ref:1282621)

Is it an FIA rule?

I thought the teams were trying to impose on themselves a reduction in testing, and Ferrari has consistently refused to join in.

JeremySmith · 20 Apr 2005, 01:18 (Ref:1282623)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dixie Flatline

Is it an FIA rule?

I thought the teams were trying to impose on themselves a reduction in testing, and Ferrari has consistently refused to join in.

Thank's Dani I understand now and I appologise I assumed it was an FIA ruling.. Dixie if that is indeed the case it's bad form on behalf of Ferrari no?

hgmonaro · 20 Apr 2005, 01:30 (Ref:1282627)

I'm not Ferrari lover, but they aren't doing too well at the moment, have the resources to do the testing they deem necessary to get back on the pace and it's not breaking any rules, only a (9?) teams agreement that they haven't agreed to (I think they have stated the previous gentlemans agreement lapsed for some reason or another). Something like that.

People with a problem with this should direct their frustrations at the FIA who do make (and enforce) the rules.

Marbot · 20 Apr 2005, 01:36 (Ref:1282629)

It's been a "Gentlemens agreement" for the past ten years or more.But the other teams decided to reduce testing in order to cut costs and thereby alter the agreement.

Ferrari didn't want to go along with that,but unfortunately instead of sticking to the original agreement Ferrari have gone completely the opposite direction and are now testing at every opportunity.

Ferrari know that costs need to be cut,even for their own survival.But this is hardly the way to go about it.

Kicking-back · 20 Apr 2005, 05:32 (Ref:1282682)

It's arrogance, pure and simple.

Ferrari consistently act as if they are above F1.

Gt_R · 20 Apr 2005, 05:59 (Ref:1282689)

K-B, for somebody like you who's been around long enough, i really didn't expect such baseless opinions which blatantly ignored facts from you.

Unfortunately, with comments like this as well as the misleading reports in the media, it gives casual fans who don't know any better wrong signals into really believing this hot-shyte.

Pure and simple..ahh... something which i doubt Mr Ron can claim his team is doing. How do you enjoy such pointless retorts?

Kicking-back · 20 Apr 2005, 06:12 (Ref:1282692)

My opinion is not "baseless" - it's what I truly believe, grounded on the facts of the situation.

I'm not ignoring any facts.

Regardless of any agreement or otherwise about a total number of testing days, it has been the convention for many years not to test in the week ahead of a Grand Prix.

This year, Ferrari have had a difficult start to the season, so decide to test as and when they please.

In the past couple of years, Williams and McLaren have developed their cars enormously during the season after poor starts, but did not resort to this.

So, yes, it is arrogance - a belief one can act in ones own best interests, regardless of the consequences.

ttc · 20 Apr 2005, 07:24 (Ref:1282711)

Martyn, you forgot to mention that the new agreement was made without Ferrari's attendance, and it was not because Ferrari chose not to attend, but rather they left out the invitation.

KB, since the old agreement is out of the window, and there's NO new agreement with Ferrari, and there's no rule that object to testing prior to a GP weekend, what arrogance are you referring to?

You mean coming to an agreement to the interest of 9 teams regardless of the impact it will have on 1?

Or coming to an agreement ON BEHALF of Ferrari and expect Ferrari to adhere to when Ferrari was NOT EVEN invited to the meeting said agreement was supposed to be discussed?

Or openly critical of Ferrari for not bending over backwards and accusing it of making a deal with FIA when in fact all teams are invited to attend to the meeting but 7 of them CHOSE not to?

Perhaps you do need to look up the term arrogance.

Marbot · 20 Apr 2005, 08:22 (Ref:1282748)

And if the other teams decide to test relentlessly,i wonder what Ferrari would say about that.

It is their own fault they wound up being Bridgestones only decent team and their own fault they got off to a bad start this season.

All of this happened after Ferrari signed their concorde agreement.And a meeting was cancelled by the FIA which prevented the 'gang of 9' from having a chance to bring about a control tyre.Something that Ferrari at the time did not want and a decision they could regret.Now Ferrari are saying that a control tyre would have been a good thing cost wise knowing full well that it could not now be enforced until 2008.

Ferrari don't have the other teams interests at heart,just a win at all costs mentality,which could cost F1 dearly.I'm not saying the other teams don't have their own self interests,but at least they came up with something half reasonable.

**Adam43** · 20 Apr 2005, 08:34 (Ref:1282755)

This has been discussed before: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66856

Of course this isn't the first time there has been a test the week before a GP this year. IIRC we decided the one week rule wasn't in existence anymore.

BootsOntheSide · 20 Apr 2005, 08:35 (Ref:1282758)

Breaking the 50km limit in the week before the race is a seperate issue. This rule has been in palce for a decade, and has nothing to do with the wrangling over the new cost-cutting regulations. If Ferrrari was still on top they wouldn't consider going against this agreement, it's for their own benefit, and as Martyn says, they haven't got anyone but themselves to blame for the initial inferiority of their tyres.

**Dani Filth** · 20 Apr 2005, 08:50 (Ref:1282773)

and what is Ferrari supose to do ?? . break a non existent rule . or just make the numbers ala minardi ... and pray for rain ?? ..

Gt_R · 20 Apr 2005, 09:32 (Ref:1282809)

Do anybody find it weird that nothing FIA nor the 9 teams could act against what Ferrari is doing now? It is not because Ferrari is "arrogant", but rather Ferrari broke no rules nor binding agreements, and hence there is NOTHING anybody could do. Hence, you hear the complaints over the media...because that's the most what others could muster.

I think enough has been said. As AA said, the shakedown agreement is no longer in existence this year... the members of the 9 teams initiated to change a current agreement unilaterally thinking they can force Ferrari into a corner. It failed.

Kicking-back · 20 Apr 2005, 10:04 (Ref:1282837)

If that rule is no longer in force, it is still interesting to note that the other teams haven't been testing in the week ahead of Grands Prix

ttc · 20 Apr 2005, 10:11 (Ref:1282845)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

And if the other teams decide to test relentlessly,i wonder what Ferrari would say about that.

It is their own fault they wound up being Bridgestones only decent team and their own fault they got off to a bad start this season.

I've yet to see Ferrari says anything against testing. Have you?

And how is it their fault that BS chose to favour Ferrari?

BS probably decided to concentrate on Ferrari because Mclaren was underperforming. Mclaren left BS not because it doesn't want preferential treatments, but rather because it is not getting preferential treatments from BS.

Name me a team that is currently using Michelin who would tell Michelin not to offer it preferential treatment if Michelin decides to come up with an offer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

All of this happened after Ferrari signed their concorde agreement.And a meeting was cancelled by the FIA which prevented the 'gang of 9' from having a chance to bring about a control tyre.Something that Ferrari at the time did not want and a decision they could regret.Now Ferrari are saying that a control tyre would have been a good thing cost wise knowing full well that it could not now be enforced until 2008.

FIA openly invited all teams. Only Ferrari attended, with Red Bull and Jordan attending the latest one. The rest of the teams CHOSE not to attend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

Ferrari don't have the other teams interests at heart,just a win at all costs mentality,which could cost F1 dearly.I'm not saying the other teams don't have their own self interests,but at least they came up with something half reasonable.

You got that right. Half reasonable. What next? Mclaren can't use the servers in the Mclaren Paragon centre because Minardi had to lease computers and it cost Minardi too much to fly their designers and engineers over to India to work on the computers?

1 Lotus · 20 Apr 2005, 11:03 (Ref:1282886)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

It's arrogance, pure and simple.

Ferrari consistently act as if they are above F1.

I must agree that they appear to do this, but in reality, as has been stated by others, if they were violating a rule, several other teams would be all over the FIA about it.

**Dani Filth** · 20 Apr 2005, 11:23 (Ref:1282897)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

If that rule is no longer in force, it is still interesting to note that the other teams haven't been testing in the week ahead of Grands Prix

that's their problem ... nobody stops them .

dcp2685 · 20 Apr 2005, 12:18 (Ref:1282932)

I have always thought that Ferrari are the babies of F1 and I absolutely agree with KB that they're arrogant. I'm also going to throw egotistical on top of that as well.

At the same time here's my thought. I like to give credit where credit is due, and Ferrari deserves the credit they earned during their run. They got bridgestone to make tires exclusively for the Ferrari and it earned them 6 straight constructors championships. As with everything that's true in this world, that run has to end sometime.

With the rule changes this year what was traditionally a bridgestone special in making tires only for 20 lap sprints, I believe they backed themselves into a corner. Ferrari too. Because of the Ferrari-Bridgestone "alliance" they didn't need to do a great deal of tire testing towards the end of their run because the tires lasted and performed great over 3 stints of 20 laps. Now that we've come to the one set of tire rule, because of that alliance, they don't have the resources to adequately test their tires. This is no secret.

What ircks people like KB and myself is that even though they got bridgestone to help them win 6 straight titles, they rely on practices that are (not unethical) but break the gentlemans agreement's that have been in place for years so they can stay on top. It seems they'll do anything to try to stay on top instead of saying "yea we realize what's happened and we're going to work hard to get back to the top so look for us being back in 2006/7." This would earn them such more respect and stature than doing what they're doing.

Instead they're testing at every available opportunity. Ferrari can't suck it up and say we screwed up. but did they? They won 6 titles! They didn't screw up the tides have turned given the new rules. Ferrari doesn't seem to get this. As mentioned before:

McLaren rose last year from the trash bin and won a race and were very competitive during the 2nd half of the season. In 2003 Williams turned around a DOG of a car and came very close to winning the Constructors. BAR in a similar way last year, and look at Toyota and Red Bull this year. None of these teams ever tested in the week leading up to the race. Why does Ferrari have to resort to such terms? I think it's because they just don't get it.

In a way it's kind of like saying Barry Bonds, Jose Canseco, Jason Giambi and whoelse didn't cheat in Baseball for taking steroids. How many legitimate players lost out on the MVP award or lost world series due to paying against players who were on steroids? Were they illegal back then? No, it wasn't in the rule book saying they were illegal. Was it seriously looked down upon? Absolutely. Is it considered cheating? Without a doubt. The testing thing with Ferrari is no different.

On that note, here's hoping that Renault consistantly win from Austrailia through the US and all the way to China. All while Ferrari tests each week leading up to the Grand Prix so they can rub their faces in it and say "What did all that "non-legit" testing get you? We're #1, you're #4."

Mark my words, if Ferrari do not regain their strength. I reckon they will "some how" end up #5 in the constructors so they can get a 3rd car in 2006. GT_R I respect your passion for the team, but these are just things that we grow to expect over the years.

Gt_R · 20 Apr 2005, 12:59 (Ref:1282965)

dcp, let me tell you straight to the records, liking Ferrari or not doesn't make a difference in this argument.

You claim that there's a broken agreement/rule/whatever. Now please show it to us that such an agreement/rule exist between the 10 teams in 2005. The 50km shakedown agreement WAS in place until last year, and one of the main reason it broke down is because 9 teams, with a couple of more vocal team bosses, tried to unilaterally force changes upon Ferrari... which it failed. Williams had to abide to it in 2003, Mclaren in 2004. There's nothing restricting Ferrari in 2005... is that clear enough?

K-B wondered why other teams are not doing it... SIMPLY because their great plan of unilateral implementation of testing day cuts backfired on them. They thought with 9 votes and the press, they could force Ferrari to bow to them...Ferrari didn't. So end up for their pride they had to stick to their agreed 30 days (which pathetically was increased from 10 days after they realise Ferrari won't play ball). That will also partly explain why teams like Renault, BAR, Mclarens are desperately maximising every test day to full capacity and running significant tons of laps to close the deficit (in fact, they are easily matching and surpassing Ferrari's testing miles so far this season)

Quote: "so they can rub their faces in it and say "What did all that "non-legit" testing get you? We're #1, you're #4.""

Wow... kinda childish don't you think... Firstly, they'd be hard pressed to find anything "non-legit". And furthermore, to boast after winning a championship after Ferrari's 6 is what i'd term arrogant. LoL. And not forgetting that while on the way to Ferrari's pit, they could drop by and laugh at Mclaren & Toyota too...? And like i've said before, a couple of teams so far had run more testing miles than Ferrari... ooh..bet it didn't cross your mind.

Kicking-back · 20 Apr 2005, 13:34 (Ref:1282998)

But that still doesn't explain why the other teams don't use any of their testing days in the week ahead of a Grand Prix.

I totally salute Ferrari's success and respect them for it - but at times they need to remember they are not bigger than the sport as a whole.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Snetterton testing this week	MikeHoyer	Motorsport Art & Photography	2	8 May 2005 20:58
Testing This Week	Led ZeppF1	Formula One	19	27 Mar 2004 19:48
renault testing this week	bella	National & International Single Seaters	2	15 Sep 2003 10:20
Testing for BAR this week...	MichaelC	Formula One	22	19 Aug 2003 23:06
F1 Testing Next Week	Carrie	Trackside	6	9 Mar 2001 16:49