Merger Imminent?

[Teretonga]

Tony will kill Atlantic if it isn't sold as a support act to ALMS or Grand Am...
Its just the way it is.
Tg's way or nothing.

My other concern is that if the 'wins' the battle he'll no longer have an interest in propping up the whole series so will let all but a handful of races die off if they aren't self sustaining and we could end up with a six or eight race schedule plus Indy and that would be it....

[johntt]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Tony will kill Atlantic if it isn't sold as a support act to ALMS or Grand Am...
Its just the way it is.
Tg's way or nothing.

My other concern is that if the 'wins' the battle he'll no longer have an interest in propping up the whole series so will let all but a handful of races die off if they aren't self sustaining and we could end up with a six or eight race schedule plus Indy and that would be it....

With a combined championship, i suspect tha the Indy Pro Series would be the main feeder, while Atlantics would sit below it.

Think of it as Indycar>Indy Pro>Indy Atlantic like Cup>Nationwide>Trucks/ARCA

[Last2LiftOff]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Tony will kill Atlantic if it isn't sold as a support act to ALMS or Grand Am...

We don't know that for sure Teretonga, but it doesn't really matter that much in the end anyway. A stronger, commercially-viable top open-wheel rung for the IPS and Atlantic drivers to shoot for means a whole lot more, to both series. By a country mile.

[indycool]

Well, we don't know what we don't know about this. I can't even understand what fomoco is trying to say, although it's certainly creative.

I have now read quotes from various stories from Paul Newman, Chip Ganassi, Jimmy Vasser, Paul Tracy, Derrick Walker, Carl Haas and Eric Bachelart saying "one series" is optimum, i.e., they're for it. Bachelart's is qualified by being upset that he spent $1 million on a new DP-01 and other pieces that may well not be used if the two series are melded.

And TG and Clarke are in Japan for talks Monday about solving the Motegi-Long Beach schedule issue.

As it took two sides to split, it takes two to come together. And I suppose both can be blamed or honored for each.

[JohnSSC]

Mods, can we start a separate thread titled: "Ongoing Rehash of the Reasons for the Split" please?

Look, there is a potential merger on the table here kids. Can we keep it to that instead of yet another hijack to go over (again) why Person X is a goof for "starting" this?

I have seen these "truths" so many times I am getting to believe that some of y'all have whole posts in an archive and you just put a quarter in the jukebox, press "D17" and out comes yet another "TG was operating in a vacuum" diatribe.

Finally, finally, finally we may be ending this ridiculous situation and I still have to wade through the leftover effluvia...

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

My other concern is that if the 'wins' the battle he'll no longer have an interest in propping up the whole series

The other thing that concerns me is whether with the increased entry, will the 'TEAM' $1.2 million per car still be offered for the next couple of years ?

As if a merger goes through, CC teams will have a distinct disadvantage in competitiveness in terms of cars and tracks, making the sponsor finding much more difficult.

1 series is what everyone wants, I just hope the new administration is willing to look after those who have battled through the hard years.

[indycool]

Time will tell that, D.R.T. With one stronger series instead of two, it should increase sponsor interest. With more people and sponsors involved, there'll be more promotion involved. It's been said that potential series sponsors would do it if it was one series. It would mean more good races on TV for ABC and make the product more valuable there.

It would create the POTENTIAL for more money into the series from several avenues, but time will tell how it all comes together or what pieces of it come together faster or slower or at all.

One thing of value to a CC team seeking a sponsor is running Indy, which has TV ratings exceeding all the CC schedule combined. That's a start.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by indycool

One thing of value to a CC team seeking a sponsor is running Indy, which has TV ratings exceeding all the CC schedule combined. That's a start.

It is but at the start with such a new environment it will be highly likely that the CC teams will be mid field which could make money finding difficult. That said, NHL was impressive out of the blocks in 2005 at Indy.

Even with Indy, mid field IRL teams havent been experiencing sponsors flocking to their cars.

The administration cannot desert these teams after or during year 1.

[indycool]

It is not in the best interest of the administration to desert anyone, so I doubt that they will. Their own teams are getting the $1.2 million TEAM subsidy this year, with small purses through the season and a larger purse at Indy as well as any CC teams that might join up for the same thing.

Although the series is doing it, those race teams are a business and they will be a better business if they are able to employ people or agencies who land them sponsors. Indeed, I've heard that three of them have already signed up with Zak Brown's agency in Indianapolis to seek sponsors.

It isn't going to be any one thing, be it subsidy or sponsorship or attendance or TV rights or series sponsor or whatever that is going to make a series work. It all must work together to build and it's illogical to assume it's all going to happen instantly or at the same time. Indeed, it will most likely be a number of years of building and there will be bumps in the road and tangents.

[fazzaz]

DRT -- Sponsors very rarely "flock" to any teams in any series. It takes a lot of work and the creation of an attractive package which meets a sponsor's needs. A team doesn't have to be a consistent winner to get good sponsorship, but rather need to provide good value to the sponsor. Zak Brown's agency (which Indycool mentions) is very good at working with teams to accomplish this. (IC, is it still the "Zak Attack"?, or am I dating myself....)

[JohnSSC]

Well, unfortunately fazzaz, that post and the subsequent post quoting it in full support "word" and all is still there...he said in response to a post that has been edited!

You are typing faster than I today, fz!

[fazzaz]

Hi, John,

Too little coffee this morning, I guess.

You're right -- I replied to an extremely offensive post, then it seemed to be gone so I edited what I had written. I just went back and found that it is indeed still there.

I am surprised, I guess, that a post accusing Tony George of being a white "supremist" (sic), adds anything to the discussion. I'm also too old, I guess, for "Word". I understand that among the very young this means something like "I agree"? This is not the language I use.

I've stayed out of most of this bog, but if I owned a CC team I would look very hard at my options this year, on both sides. On the CC side, is the series providing any financial assistance in any way? If I'm using a pay driver, is he tied to a particular series or style of racing? (For example, will he refuse to run ovals?) Will I need to buy a second Panoz tub this year, as a spare or backup? With the schedule and TV package, can/have I attracted sponsors? If I ran the Indy 500, would that give me additional sponsorship opportunities? Would the Dallara/Honda offer make financial sense?

The decisions for the series owners are more difficult because of their multiple interests. If I am KK, and (a) a part owner of the series, (b) a team owner, (c) owner of the engine supplier for the series, where is my first loyalty? What is my bargaining position? Eric Bachelart's comments would suggest an answer in part, but I really don't know.

KK and GF are wealthy men, and according to our "insider" can support CC forever, but most wealthy men I know aren't stupid; they know when and how to cut their losses. CC as such has very limited assets for a merger (basically only lease/operating agreements for races.) I think they're in a difficult position.

(The argument will likely be raised by the faithful that this same scenario applies to the IRL. Perhaps so, but that's irrelevant at this point in the proposed merger.)

I think this merger can happen. I think it should happen, and now rather than next year -- that may save some of the smaller CC teams. Open wheel racing in the U.S. will not displace NASCAR -- it's far too late for that. I do believe that a combined IRL/CC, with the Indy 500 as the centerpiece of their series, could attract a sufficient base of teams, fans, and sponsorship to be successful.

Fz

[luke]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Mods, can we start a separate thread titled: "Ongoing Rehash of the Reasons for the Split" please?

Look, there is a potential merger on the table here kids. Can we keep it to that instead of yet another hijack to go over (again) why Person X is a goof for "starting" this?

I have seen these "truths" so many times I am getting to believe that some of y'all have whole posts in an archive and you just put a quarter in the jukebox, press "D17" and out comes yet another "TG was operating in a vacuum" diatribe.

Finally, finally, finally we may be ending this ridiculous situation and I still have to wade through the leftover effluvia...

I did wonder where you had been...

[f1manoz]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Mods, can we start a separate thread titled: "Ongoing Rehash of the Reasons for the Split" please.

Don't take that tone with us when the reasons for the split have just as much to do with the imminent merger. Just because you've had your head in the sand for the past 13 years...

[BootsOntheSide]

Attack the post, not the poster.

I appreciate that some will feel that the merger would simply take us to an inferior version of 1995, but it's a better future than we can realistically get with 2 seperate championships. That's what counts.

[indycool]

fazzaz, yes, I believe you are dating yourself! I don't believe Zak is driving any more but he's had some success in sponsor placement, quite a bit with NASCAR teams.

It is a difficult time for CC teams. RM's story said they hadn't been paid prize money from last year. They seem largely unsuccessful at finding sponsorship, although Bachelart found something and says he spent $1 million on a DP-01 and new CC gear before he found out about merger talks. Mark C. said Walker went on Indy TV last night for an interview with a Dallara behind him. The TG offer to the teams of $1.2 million per car subsidy for any team showing the budget to run the full IRL season is $1.2 million more than some of the smaller CC teams have committed to them so far.

And quotes I've read from Paul Newman, Haas, Walker, Tracy, Vasser, Ganassi from the IRL side, Mario and a couple others favor the melding of the two.....much the same as 90 percent or so of the forum posters on the boards I've read.

It seems to be, as TG and Clarke headed to Japan yesterday, that the Motegi-Long Beach schedule is the only thing of any consequence hanging up the deal. If there were any other major hurdles, why go to Japan to solve this one first?

The CC owners are also between a rock and a hard place in throwing good money after bad. They have spent a ton on CC with no profit projection in sight and quite probably more subsidizing needed to have a reasonable field of cars. They already cut way back on their TV buy. I'd guess contracts have not yet been signed for the track rentals and self-promotes if these talks have been going on for awhile.

The CC owners still own Long Beach, Pi and Cosworth as potential profit makers, plus their own race teams if this goes through. I'm not certain of this -- I'd hafta check with my tax guy -- but I believe if you write off losses on a business five years in a row, it's considered by the IRS as a hobby, not a business, and writeoff deductions for it are disallowed. I say that because I was once involved in a business where that was an issue, but that was many moons ago and tax laws may have changed since then.

There are a lot of things in play here but if TG & Co. are successful at resolving the Motegi-Long Beach issue, IMO, we're going to see a stronger single series, albeit that some venues that won't make the cut at least initially are more popular with some people than others.

[enemy-ace]

A done deal? Let's hope so.

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/...top-story.html

[f1manoz]

If the Long Beach / Motegi problem is the only thing stopping this merger, then surely Honda would move it for the sake of helping it????

[rush1]

Originally Posted by enemy-ace

A done deal? Let's hope so.

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/...top-story.html

That would be the best news for Indy Car racing since 1995.

Lets hope its true

[luke]

Originally Posted by enemy-ace

A done deal? Let's hope so.

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/...top-story.html

That link sounds very encouraging....they were basically saying they have merged..

[Koulle]

Autosport suggests otherwise:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65062

[luke]

That was earlier though...

[yamato]

Originally Posted by luke

That link sounds very encouraging....they were basically saying they have merged..

that story lists Ryan Briscoe to Team Australia as part of the deal

that must be a typo,.... I wonder what Roger Penske has to say about that??

[indycool]

MUST be a typo or misunderstanding....or just plain mistake.

[luke]

Either one of those IC!