British GP to be held at Donington

[Peter Mallett]

Having gone through this thread it seems there is a fair balance of opinion, and why not? Personally I rail at the suggestion that Silverstone deserves a bashing or indeed that it’s humorous to think the BRDC is suffering, because they’re a “club”. Mainly because the clubs (and the BRDC is one of the most prolific) are the only means of getting youngsters out of karts and into F1 or any higher level of the sport in this country. In fact as benefactors the BRDC has done a lot for this sport we all profess to love, so I for one don’t begrudge them their clubhouse etc. Even now there are very few “rich uncles” to look after the hopeful racers, witness Ant.

So to suggest this is good or even mildly humorous, because it satisfies some kind of anti authoritarian fetish is arguably sad, if not absurd. That said what of Donington? (For those who love it but can’t spell btw, there’s only three n’s in Donington.).

Well for one, as has been suggested, there is no firm planning permission published but as I understand it (correct me if I’m wrong), if the building line of the property isn’t affected then the permission (as far as construction goes) is a formality. However the environmental issues are more difficult to resolve.

The layout posted earlier actually looks interesting, except it takes away one of the two main overtaking places on the circuit. Add to that the loss of Coppice as a difficult corner and you really have (IMO) got your work cut out to make this interesting for the driver based on that plan, but we’ll stick with it because we have nothing else ATM.

The need to expend over £100m in two years (in fact 18 months because it will need inspection) is somewhat optimistic, especially in light of the current economic climate. There may be a plan to take advantage of the UK construction market by squeezing the price on the basis of available cash, which is OK until you find that the cheapest company was only cheap because it had sold its assets to pay off its dept. Then who does Bernie sue when there’s no track? The process of design, specifying and tendering £100m of work is approx 8 months even if you fast track and design/build it. After that there’s the pain of developing the design to meet what you actually need which adds cost and time, to the extent…………….. well I made that point earlier. The cash flow on that would suggest a major contractor not a small outfit due to the normal payment structure of these projects. That means the £100m is really £135 (ish).

So, if this is going to work then the planning/environmental approval must necessarily be completed and received and the tenders must already be out there (any QS worth his salt will concur with this). A negotiated single source bid process would need serious support from the major investors which would also take time. In which case there’s at least three months of decision making to go.

Now we are down to 15 months. (Cash flow again?).

The circuit changes are possibly the most difficult of the entire scheme. Building techniques are pretty straightforward so the construction of the new pits etc. are unlikely to be critical path, however to realign the track will need a clear period, and let’s not forget that to build the new pit buildings etc. we have to cross the track layout with cables, pipes etc. (if we consider the design as posted), so unless they are closing the circuit now we have at least four more months to go (not allowing for weather), so our construction schedule is now 11 months. Looks tight doesn’t it? Taking an average man hour rate of £80.00 per hour including plant, materials, overheads and labour that means 700 people working on site! Where will they fit?

I notice a contract has been signed so taking that at face value, it means the owners of the circuit have got some serious work to do. Personally I think it’s a shame because unlike many I believe Silverstone and what it stands for is important in world wide motor sport (it is a bloody good circuit too). Donington was always a spectacular but ultimately small time bit player in international motor sport, but it has a place because of that. Now, if this goes ahead, that has been lost and for me that is the biggest shame. Donington is going to be Bahrain with extra “rain”. Nothing more, nothing less.

Good luck to them but for me it is just one more nail in the coffin of Formula 1. Oh wait, it isn't that anymore is it?

BTW. My calcs are open to critique.

[garcon]

I can't help taking a pop at the BRDC.

I know it's not an entirely fair view of them.

As for the work required at Donington, and what it'll do to the second best club circuit in the country (Oulton being the best, of course), is another matter.

And although Silverstone has its critics, and indeed its negative points, I do think it's our most suitable circuit for F1 and the likes of LMES.

As for nails in coffins, I'm not sure whether it's just that I've been busy or that I am finally losing interest, but I've only seen one full race so far this season...

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

... (For those who love it but can’t spell btw, there’s only three n’s in Donington.)...

TOTALLY OFF TOPIC COMMENT:
When the circuit re-opened in the 70's the word Donnington was spelt exactly like that (yes, with 4 n's) on the tickets!

ON TOPIC
I totally agree with Peter above and many more. To expect to get all the required work done in the time allowed is ludicrous, and if they're going to knock all the buildings down, rip up the circuit and start again from scratch, why bother doing this vandalism to an existing facility. It would be far simpler (and surely cheaper) to build a whole new circuit anywhere else?
And don't get me started on access and other things, plus, East Midlands Airport will surely object to any expansion plans (they always do) as that would work against the Airport being allowed to expand further.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by garcon

I can't help taking a pop at the BRDC.

I wasn't referring to you, but if the cap fits.

Originally Posted by garcon

As for the work required at Donington, and what it'll do to the second best club circuit in the country (Oulton being the best, of course), is another matter.

I don't really care from that point of view, because I'll race anywhere.

Originally Posted by garcon

And although Silverstone has its critics, and indeed its negative points, I do think it's our most suitable circuit for F1 and the likes of LMES.

Again its not a problem for me, I rarely get to watch so I go by what's good to race on.

Originally Posted by garcon

As for nails in coffins, I'm not sure whether it's just that I've been busy or that I am finally losing interest, but I've only seen one full race so far this season...

Y'know, apart from Bahrain which I attended I haven't seen a wheel turned in a Formula one race this year. Have I missed it. Nope. And that is sad.

[garcon]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I wasn't referring to you, but if the cap fits.

Must be a big cap...

Y'know, apart from Bahrain which I attended I haven't seen a wheel turned in a Formula one race this year. Have I missed it. Nope. And that is sad.

Agreed. Maybe I'm just turning into a grumpy old git, but I get most fun out of Historics meetings than anything these days.

[JimW]

Peter's analysis of the timescales is interesting and puts some flesh on my gut feelings about timing.

Interesting point about planning permission being easier (quicker) if the 'building line' is not affected. I'm assuming that any GP plan will have new pits/paddock/support buildings in a different place. I don't see any way in which an upgraded pit complex for F1 could be made to fit in between Goddards and Redgate. My understanding that one key element of the new owners setup was that they had lots of the surrounding land (instead of just up to the concrete perimeter wall) and so could use that.

So I'm guessing (with a little input from a friend who works in planning) that any likely development will involve new buildings on different areas of land and probably some 'change of use' issues for the surrounding land, currently used as farm land.

Interesting times.

Jim

[V8thunderfan]

I gotta be honest I have never been a huge fan of Silverstone .. tweeked and with a couple of extra corners added it still is not a great track for F1.
Sure its got a "nice" paddock and access is better but it just doesn't feel .. I dunno how to put it into words I feel it doesn't offer much in the way if utilising the awesome natural environment we have in the UK, The British grand prix for me should be at a flowing race track with rolling hills almost like Spa. For me Donington is a ok.. maybe not the best example of what I am on about.. I am interested to see what they can do to Donington to make it "world class" I dunno.. I hope you guys sort of understand what I mean.

[Shelagh]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Complete tosh. Donington's just rebuilt it's pits for motorbikes, so they'd need doing again. Access for anything like a large crowd is awful, no hotel infrastruture, etc, etc. Add to that it's a wonderful track and I could accept F1 cars going to race around it, but it will get ruined and rebuilt so they might as well go anywhere. My guess is the only bit Tilke would leave alone is the GP loop which is the poorest bit.

My guess is it's all politics and Britains once more being dragged through the mire to further the personal and financial ambitions of the two clowns who run F1 to the detriment of just about every other motorsport in the world. I could forgive that attitude if it was still run by the French, but this is English people who are doing this to us. Shameful.

Woolley - spot on mate! Maybe this is why they've repainted everything in BLACK and white?

I've been pondering on this (as you do) and my thoughts were that when Tom Wheatcroft re-opened the circuit, he kept the new track layout following the 1930's one as much as possible (hence the dreaded Melbourne Loop) - but not exactly because of safety, narrowness, etc........

Looks like that connection to the origins of the circuit are going to be "lost in the mists of time" if Herr Tilke gets his hands on the re-design.

Donington today is a definite improvement on when I started marshalling there - but it is looking so tired and when comparing to Silverstone "then" and "now" (ie same timescales) then Silverstone is many classes above.

Have to agree with many other posts - this is "Bernie politics". Silverstone go ahead with their plans and get them done, so when Donny falls through they can "step into the breach".

As mentioned in other posts as well - Bernie did make F1 what it is today by looking forward to the future - but sometimes you have to know when to stop looking forward and realise that what you've got today is good enough.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by garcon

I'm just turning into a grumpy git,

"Just turning"?

[Cougar]

Originally Posted by stroller

Does anyone think that Bernie could finally have his dream of a Grand Prix with NO spectators - just TV coverage ??

Please remember its DoniNgton = 1 N

Donington with 1 N seems to speel Doingto for me Sorry *gets coat*

[Peter Mallett]

I think I said three?

[Cougar]

Sorry Peter I added a quote now This thread is growing so fast.. I opened the thread.. made a cup of coffee.. My reply is 2 pages later!!

[Peter Mallett]

Yes it certainly is a speel.

[steve_r]

Re timescales - As there has been no detailed announcements regarding these overhauls to the track & facilities, can we assume that the work will be done in stages? If so, perhaps they will update the Pits in time for 2010, and major track devoplments would not come untill later.... or vice verce...

[Knowlesy]

I think the timing of the announcement really says everything about the whole sorry saga...

[davyboy]

Peter's done a great job analyzing the 'how it will happen' and I'm not qualified to challenge any of his calculations or assumptions there, so I'll happily go with them. Which comes back to the question 'where's the payback on the investment' that I raised earlier. If this project does not have a clear payback, then its highly unlikely to happen, particularly at a point in time when the credit markets are very tight.

Which leads us neatly into the biggest question of all here... in the event it doesn't happen, what's the Plan B ?

[Pondo]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I think the timing of the announcement really says everything about the whole sorry saga...

100% agree - this isn't about moving the sport forward, it's about Bernie's little vendetta.

Being his height, of course, a little vendetta is as much as he can reach.

[Peter Mallett]

The plan B(ernie) is to move the entire shooting match to the middle east. Same as the power boats.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Which leads us neatly into the biggest question of all here... in the event it doesn't happen, what's the Plan B ?

No British GP. Or is that plan A?

[Pete Fenelon]

Originally Posted by Redlake27

Fantastic news. Yes, Donington may be butchered, but it should retain its undulating character.

Silverstone is, by comparison, a bland facility run by one of the least customer focused companies around.

And F1 is a bland championship run by one of the least customer-focussed billionaires around. F1 and Silverstone have reached a sort of symbiosis of blandness.

Donington is a fantastic circuit that is going to be sacrificed on the altar of Tilke and a big glass media centre

Losing Donny to regain Silverstone is an unfair exchange - one great circuit goes down the pan to be replaced by an aerodrome with no charisma...

[JeremySmith]

I will believe this whole charade when I see it...I just do not see this happening myself.

[andy97]

I'm taking bookings for B & B and a couple of car parking spaces now!

[Tim Falce]

I haven't read all the thread so sorry if I am repeating anything.
I seem to remember prices for clubbies going up considerably the year after the last revamp, so what's it going to cost to hire after this round of rebuilding?

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

The plan B(ernie) is to move the entire shooting match to the middle east. Same as the power boats.

That's the most plausible outcome here.

Let's fast forward to January 2010. The Donington plan is abandoned and Bernie's *****ing in the press about 'these people' who promised they would have things ready and didn't. Silverstone is a word that's previously been excreted from Bernie's vocabulary [BRDC is another by the way] and Dubai Autodrome steps neatly into the breach whereupon Bernie's shed the obligation to come to Britain for the GP.

[Peter Mallett]

Don't book the Holiday Inn Express.