Possible seat changes for 2012?

[chunterer]

His opening lap at Valencia was brilliant, that sort of thing gets attention.....

[Jamesy-18]

Originally Posted by strider

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvzD6...ature=youtu.be

One race does not a season make.

I don't see why a few people are linking Bianchi to Massa's seat when he's already out of championship contention in GP2 and didn't exactly show brilliant times at the young driver test last year. Would be suicidal. Perez would be a much better fit.

[chunterer]

Bianchi is clearly a rough diamond.

Remember the old cliches like you can teach a quick driver to be sensible but you can't teach a sensible driver to be quick (or simialr...)

I agree with the comments about Glock, he's far too good to carry on in a back of the grid team but then maybe Virgin can actually make some decent strides next season?

I kind of hope he'll get a one year deal with a higher grid team so that he can refresh everyone about his talent and go from there. As I say, his first lap was stellaer in Valencia, and there's been other little cameos where he's shone.

To be fair to Jerome, he's kept Glock honest which tends to suggest that the Belgian has a future in F1.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Jamesy-18

I don't see why a few people are linking Bianchi to Massa's seat when he's already out of championship contention in GP2 and didn't exactly show brilliant times at the young driver test last year. Would be suicidal. Perez would be a much better fit.

Ferrari have thought of a way to settle that issue. I hope Sergio walks all over him.

[Razzzor]

Yeah I wouldn't mind seeing Grosjean back in a seat; he was ousted too early for the has-been Heidfeld. Hell even Bourdais should have had more of a chance... in hindsight now, he was never really that far off the pace of the soon-to-be double champion Vettel.

Even Piquet Jr was good enough for one of the backmarker teams. Piquet wasn't THAT far off Alonso when they were at Renault, certainly not much more so than Massa. Meanwhile Piquet Jr was a rookie so at a disadvantage, while Massa last year had the advantage of already being with Ferrari for several years.

Glock is fast, but not really any faster than people like Trulli or Kovalainen. He's not going to win races unless he has the fastest car.

There's a lot of fast fresh faces in F1 at the moment, my favs are Di Resta and Perez. +1 more when Kubica returns.

I'm wondering who would be faster if they were teammates - Button or Webber? I'm thinking Webber at this stage might be the quicker driver.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by strider

Ferrari have thought of a way to settle that issue. I hope Sergio walks all over him.

They're both extremely quick and have a decent F1 future, but only one is a potential WDC......

I'll leave you to decide who I mean by that

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Yeah I wouldn't mind seeing Grosjean back in a seat; he was ousted too early for the has-been Heidfeld. Hell even Bourdais should have had more of a chance... in hindsight now, he was never really that far off the pace of the soon-to-be double champion Vettel.

Glock is fast, but not really any faster than people like Trulli or Kovalainen. He's not going to win races unless he has the fastest car.

Romain didn't get the right break in 09, he is a lot lot better than he was able to show.

Glock is quicker' than Trulli by a mile and probably more complete than Kovy too. Whether Timo gets his hands on a race winning car, ever, is another thing.

[Born Racer]

Romain Grosjean wasn't ridiculously off one Fernando Alonso considering he had had no testing, and that's a formidable team-mate to go up against. I hope he finds his way back in.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by chunterer

They're both extremely quick and have a decent F1 future, but only one is a potential WDC......

I'll leave you to decide who I mean by that



Romain didn't get the right break in 09, he is a lot lot better than he was able to show.

Glock is quicker' than Trulli by a mile and probably more complete than Kovy too. Whether Timo gets his hands on a race winning car, ever, is another thing.

To my way of thinking, both Trulli and Kovi should find something else to do. Lotus needs more that its getting from its drivers imo, they are both unconvincing!

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by wnut

To my way of thinking, both Trulli and Kovi should find something else to do. Lotus needs more that its getting from its drivers imo, they are both unconvincing!

I think this is unfair to Heikki. He is outperforming Trulli quite convincingly, but we don't know if he's getting the best out of the car or if there is more in it? And until Trulli is replaced we won't know, so, imo, it's not right to decide if Kovi is doing a good job or not.

[givemethatcar]

Originally Posted by strider

Ferrari have thought of a way to settle that issue. I hope Sergio walks all over him.

This is interesting case because Perez is Ferrari's Academy also...if Massa Doesnt get contract, Perez is one of my favourites

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I think this is unfair to Heikki. He is outperforming Trulli quite convincingly, but we don't know if he's getting the best out of the car or if there is more in it?.

T'is unfair you're right. He is doing a good job, but problem is he'll never get a race winning seat ever again after the debacle that was his last season at McLaren, his fault or not....

Originally Posted by givemethatcar

This is interesting case because Perez is Ferrari's Academy also...if Massa Doesnt get contract, Perez is one of my favourites

I think bella may have had it right about Sergio originally being brought in as a back up plan if Bianchi didn't pick up his form again this season. Well Jules kind of has but Sergio's had a good F1 season, so Maranello might want to keep them bith occupied until one or another of their seats become free. Massa's quick enough once again, he's quaklifying strongly again, so he's not far off a decent result by my reckoning. He's only going to be leaving if he suddenly goes backwards again, so the juniors are longer term bets.

[SJA]

Red Bull
Vettel | Webber/Buemi/Alguersuari
I feel in my bones Webber is on the way to Ferrari, but the media hype surrounding his imminent re-signing with Red Bull is hard to ignore. If he goes though, one of the STR boys will step up, whilst the other will remain at STR to partner Ricciardo. If Webber stays, the same thing will happen, just a year later.

McLaren
Hamilton | Button
This team will be nailed down for a while, despite the media beat up to the contrary. Team will switch to inhouse engines in 2014 or PURE engines badged as their own or perhaps under the name of an associate sponsor.

Ferrari
Alonso | Massa/Webber
See Red Bull. If Webber signs it will be for 2+1 takining him to retirement. At which point we will see Perez step up and Bianchi slot in at Sauber. This may happen sooner if Massa stays and has another poor year in 2012.

Mercedes
Rosberg | di Resta
It wont be decided until the end of the year, but Schumacher will hand the keys over to di Resta and take a reserve and mentor role as well as general poster and promotions boy for Mercedes GP and Mercedes-Benz in general.

Renault
Kubica | Petrov
Robert will be fit and ready to take back over from Nick who will move off to a reserve role somewhere. Petrov will be retained- he brings cash, is improving very well and is becoming quite an asset to the team. Whats more interesting is what shape and form this team might take in the future. "Renault" in name only. Genii owned, Renault powered and Group Lotus sponsored. Well, Genii were only keeping the entry warm for Group Lotus who were going to take over control and rename the chassis "Lotus", which they are now un-able to do. Will Group Lotus pull the plug? Will Renault terminate their engine contract with the team, forcing them to go Cosworth? Can Genii sustain this entry on their own if Group Lotus pull out? What's in it for them if they do? Potential future PURE customer if the team lasts that long.

Williams
Barrichello | Maldonado
Rubens looked like he would walk at years end until the Renault engine announcement. He'll stay for at least another year now. Maldonado has proved himself worthy beyond the cash he brings, he will stay.

Force India
Sutil/Massa | Hulkenberg
Hulkenberg will step in if di Resta gets the Mercedes call and I believe he will and I get the feeling if there is an alternative on the market for Sutil, Force India might snap that up (example: Massa if Webber goes to Ferrari). If not, Sutil will be around here for another year for want of a better option. Ties to Mercedes will continue to strenghten.

Sauber
Kobayashi | Perez
Ferrari ties with strenghen (more-so, again). Perez will get the call to Ferrari possibly as soon as 2013 if Massa stays and has a bad 2012. Or, as late as 2015 if Webber moves to Ferrari and stays for the full 2+1. In either case, Bianchi well end up here to replace Perez eventually, as well as eventually joining Perez at Ferrari post-Alonso. Kobayashi will be the main man at this team for a while to come.

Toro Rosso
Ricciardo | Buemi/Alguersuari
Scenario 1- Webber goes to Ferrari. One of the 2011 drivers will get promoted whilst the other remains here to partner Ricciardo with Jean-Eric Vergne waiting in the wings if one of them starts under performing.
Scenario 2- Webber stays at Red Bull. Instead of one driver getting promoted, one driver gets dropped in favor of Ricciardo. Jean-Eric will be there as above, just as Daniel has been there this year. Maybe Jean-Eric will find himself in a HRT halfway through 2012?!

Lotus
Kovalainen | Senna
Trulli is as good as gone. Where to? Who cares? The replacement is the interesting thing. Chandhok? Maybe but I don't think so. I just have a feeling Fernandez will go for someone like Senna. Marketibility, speedy, ready and available. Will push Kovalainen. Like I said, based on nothing other than an formula I believe is there.

HRT
Liuzzi | Costa
Tonio will stay for want of a better option. I believe Albert Costa will find his way to the second seat from Formula Renault 3.5 by virtue of the recent ownership announcement and impending workshop move and further ownership/partnership announcement (EPIC Epsilon Euskadi). Team will stay Cosworth. Potential 2014 PURE or Mercedes customer?

Virgin
Glock | d'Ambrosio/Wickens
Timo looked on the way out until Wirth got the flick, now looks set to stay to see how things play out with the new McLaren deal. d'Ambrosio has done all the right things to be retained, but Wickens (Marussia protege) is waiting in the wings if he slips up even just a little. Will stay Cosworth power until 2014 when they will do whatever McLaren do. McLaren in-house engines or PURE badged as McLaren, Marussia or an associate sponsor.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by SJA

Red Bull
Vettel | Webber/Buemi/Alguersuari

I don't see Buemi or Alguersuari at Red Bull to be honest. Alguersuari was on the verge of being dropped from STR 3 races ago, now he's doing better and out performing Buemi, so what does that say about Buemi?

Ricciardo came in and finished nearly a minute behind Luizzi. Ok, it was his first race, but Red Bull/STR dropped Tonio because he wasn't fast/good enough, so what does that say for DR if he can't outperform Luizzi?

[bella]

i think alguersuari is worth his weight in gold to red bull. he fits their marketing strategy *perfectly* with the f1 driver/dj thing he's got going on, he's attractive for the ladies and painfully cool... so if you needed someone to slot in alongside vettel when webber moves on who is no slouch and has done his time with the company, he seems pretty ideal.

[REALIST]

Originally Posted by bella

i think alguersuari is worth his weight in gold to red bull. he fits their marketing strategy *perfectly* with the f1 driver/dj thing he's got going on, he's attractive for the ladies and painfully cool... so if you needed someone to slot in alongside vettel when webber moves on who is no slouch and has done his time with the company, he seems pretty ideal.

Oh, that's OK then. Never mind the fact that he's actually not that quick and crashes quite a bit...................... he's 'attractive for the ladies and painfully cool'.

What has F1 descended to?

[nycuk]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Ricciardo came in and finished nearly a minute behind Luizzi. Ok, it was his first race, but Red Bull/STR dropped Tonio because he wasn't fast/good enough, so what does that say for DR if he can't outperform Luizzi?

If DR can't outperform Liuzzi, it kinda screws Red Bulls longterm plans doesn't it?

[bella]

Originally Posted by REALIST

Oh, that's OK then. Never mind the fact that he's actually not that quick and crashes quite a bit...................... he's 'attractive for the ladies and painfully cool'.

What has F1 descended to?

sad isn't it, all this marketing stuff. good job they never used to use a drivers image for marketing in the Good Old Days, eh?

[chunterer]

Alguersuari is bloody quick!! He really is...

The current Torro Rosso isn't, however.

I think he might be in the Rosberg mould, face fits, marketers dream, quick enough to threaten on ocassion, but never gonna be WDC.

These sorts of the guys have redefined the journeyman driver.

[bella]

that toro rosso is interesting isn't it, part of me just wishes they'd bung vettel in it for a free practice session just to see how fast the old girl will go!

it'll be interesting to see how ricciardo does in the rest of the fr3.5 races in the context of how alguersuari managed his motivations in a similar situation in 2009 when he was competing in both fr3.5 and f1.

i think in these times where we have a return to "pay" drivers where a new f1 driver brings their own sponsors marketability is a serious concern for those who don't have the government of a country in their back pocket. you can't tell me the fact that someone like alguersuari or even yamamoto can turn up and not only speak the corporate speak and talk the guests through a lap of a circuit but then launch a corporate party with a session on the decks *isn't* more appealing, especially to those existing sponsors with a younger target audience. look at how ken block is marketing himself in wrc.

[SJA]

Originally Posted by SJA

HRT
Liuzzi | Costa
Tonio will stay for want of a better option. I believe Albert Costa will find his way to the second seat from Formula Renault 3.5 by virtue of the recent ownership announcement and impending workshop move and further ownership/partnership announcement (EPIC Epsilon Euskadi). Team will stay Cosworth. Potential 2014 PURE or Mercedes customer?

Correction? Javier Villa | Albert Costa in 2012??

HRT just cannot find the balance can they? Bring in a driver with some sponsors, by all means, but can you bring one in that has half a chance of qualifying higher that 23rd at best! More than that- someone who can actually help you sort your freaking car out!

[Razzzor]

Interesting read SJA... you certainly know what you're talking about.

It's the more obvious and safe prediction though with RB and Ferrari nurturing their new talent in mid-field teams, but I wouldn't be surprised if things were more dramatic. Assuming Red Bull and Ferrari are still the top 2 teams next year and Massa/Webber continue to plummet, I think it's unlikely Bianchi, Alguersuari, Buemi or even Perez would get call-ups. Maybe Perez if he continues to improve next year, but not the other 3. No, I think Rosberg and Kubica (assuming he returns to his old form in 2012) will tire of being in cars behind the top 3 and make the switch. Rosberg to Ferrari to support Alonso, Kubica to Red Bull so they've got 2 lightning fast drivers. And who knows, maybe Massa or Button will tire of being #2 drivers and take a break... they've been in F1 for a decade now and unless they're in the best car they won't be winning a title.

And then there's Mitch Evans who must not be far from joining the Red Bull programme.

[bella]

i'd be surprised if costa went anywhere near a f1 drive for a few years. he hasn't won a race in fr3.5 yet (or come anywhere near looking like he will) and this is the second season opportunity he's been given on the kindness of joan villadelprat. villadelprat isn't involved financially in epic racing. costa would get a go in the car at the rookie tests and that would be that.

i think you're joining two and two together and getting four and a half to be honest.

[p-matt]

It's clear that Villa has his foot in the door at HRT, but I'm struggling to understand why. Does he bring lots of cash with him or something, because I didn't think he was heavily financially backed. Whereas Clos has access to bags of cash from what I understand.

[chunterer]

Javi Villa to HRT???

Surely not, he's a part time GT driver now after a spectacularly unsuccessful GP2 stretch!

Yes he did have plenty of backing as I recall, that's why he kept getting the drives ahead of far more talented pedallers, even from Spain.

[chillibowl]

a vote for Montezemolo is a vote against Massa!

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2011/...is-staying-if/

as far as blogs/speculation go it doesn't get better/sillier than this.
sports and politics = awesome!