The RS Spyder "Gentleman" story

[The Badger]

What do you folks think of the story about Patrick Peter suggesting to Porsche not to sell their chassis to a LMS team who intend to run 2 pro's in the car`?

I think its nothing short of a bloody disgrace !!!

[SebringMG]

Agreed absolute disgrace !! What is the difference between someone running an RS Spyder with 2 pros and what Embassy are planning ? In my opinion not a lot!!

[minimangler]

Shocking, without doubt. I am disgusted. Why should they not be sold the car?

[AU N EGL]

Porsche should only sell the Spyder to teams that are fully funded and professional drivers, no paid drivers.

Keep the car up front of the field and great for marketing.

[gwyllion]

Stupid idea. Then LMS shouldn't allow Peugeot to run 2 pros either, etc.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Stupid idea. Then LMS shouldn't allow Peugeot to run 2 pros either, etc.

Yeah ..... put Nicolas Zarkozy in the car with Minassian !!!

[mariantic]

Originally Posted by The Badger

What do you folks think of the story about Patrick Peter suggesting to Porsche not to sell their chassis to a LMS team who intend to run 2 pro's in the car`?

The story as I saw it:-
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...&rssfeed=rss01

is an agreement between LMS boss Patrick Peter and team owner Frans Verschuur. in effect "just one pro and you get an LMS entry, two and you don't". I can't see where Porsche is being requested not to sell to all-pro teams.

Am I missing another story? If so can someone put up a link please.

Mariantic

[minimangler]

Originally Posted by mariantic

The story as I saw it:-
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...&rssfeed=rss01

is an agreement between LMS boss Patrick Peter and team owner Frans Verschuur. in effect "just one pro and you get an LMS entry, two and you don't". I can't see where Porsche is being requested not to sell to all-pro teams.

Am I missing another story? If so can someone put up a link please.

Mariantic

Still, they are hampering Porsche just because they MIGHT be excellent in LMP2. Not fair!

[The Badger]

Ok ..... maybe i got it slightly wrong , but the poll stays the same .

What do think about Peter's suggestion to teams interested in running the RS Spyder .

With all these rubbish rules ..... dont cross the white line , dont hit the bollard and now , dont have 2 top drivers in your Porsche , what is next I wonder ?

[Hugewally]

Verschuur said: "I have to accept this, even though it is not in the rules. You cannot compare us to Penske in the American Le Mans Series: it is a factory team and we are a true privateer."

Total BS. What's the point of buying & racing a Porsche if what you're basically saying is that you don't want to win. Or is he saying that the LMS teams aren't that good to begin with?

[knighty]

yes, this truly sucks.

[The Badger]

Why should VS have to accept this if it is not in the rules ?

Sounds like a bit of blackmail to me !!!

Should Porsche not step in and say something about this ?

[Speed-King]

The problem is that the LMS is oversubscribed and they have to accept no team that isn't doing whatever they want. I think there's not much Porsche could do.

[paul-collins]

If they want to run pro drivers, we'll take them in the ALMS.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I think there's not much Porsche could do.

I think there is something Porsche could do ..... but I dont know the law .

Peter is effectivily chaining a lead boot on the RS Spyder . Why should the Porsche name be sullied by potential poor results ?

Also , Porsche could object to the fact that it is only with respect to their product .

[Spyderman]

A complete and utter disgrace!
Unfortunately it is people with these type of ideas that are often governing our sport.

[TWK]

Do we really need to know any more about why LMS events don't draw flies?

There is a real difference between glorified club racing and the kinds of events that fans will pay money to attend.

Historics are a class of their own because it's not really a "race" that attendees are going to, but an exhibition.

LMS and Grand Am have the same philosophy: Provide a place that wealthy people can race their cars. (I believe Peter has a history of this kind of event.)

Unfortunately, the two objective are fundimentally in conflict. Sports fans (all sports) want to see real competition between the best there is. They can't get that if rules conspire against it, and when they see something like this, well, they aren't stupid. They'll continue to "stay away in droves."

[GTfour]

I can´t believe someone can just get away with such a childish selfmade rule! This Patrick Peter dude is french isn´t he? It sounds to me that he´s afraid of the possibility of the Porsches kicking the arses of the Pugs like they do with the R10 in the ALMS...

I really am disgusted by authoritarian "I make the rules as I please" bobo´s like this guy. Does someone have his e-mail so I can send him my personal opinion on this?

[JAG]

P2 is for privateers in the LMS and at Le Mans.

The pro/gentleman driver policy has worked for the class, so why change?

If you want to compete for overall wins, go to P1, simple really.

Would you have entered a C2 Spice to compete against the C1 Porsches and Jaguars in the Group C days?

[WouterM]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Stupid idea. Then LMS shouldn't allow Peugeot to run 2 pros either, etc.

Last time I checked, Peugeot didn't run in the P2 class.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Why should VS have to accept this if it is not in the rules ?

Sounds like a bit of blackmail to me !!!

Should Porsche not step in and say something about this ?

Why do you and others throw a fit at this proposal, yet the guy actually running the team have accepted this move?

P2's will have the weight increase in the LMS, they aren't going to be competing for overall wins on pure pace, as they have in the ALMS.

Porsche will be in P1 in a year or two, chill out, there's too much fretting over insignificant, petty issues, rather than looking at the bigger picture.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by JAG

P2 is for privateers in the LMS and at Le Mans.

The pro/gentleman driver policy has worked for the class, so why change?

If you want to compete for overall wins, go to P1, simple really.

Would you have entered a C2 Spice to compete against the C1 Porsches and Jaguars in the Group C days?

I would agree. That is why there is a 4 class structure in place.

L.P.

[paul-collins]

So with the weight gain for the P2s and weight loss for the P1s, there should be technically no threat to the P1 class of being humiliated - so why do you need a rule about driver abilities in either class? Surely it's up to the teams to get value out of winning their classes?

I still say this is a ridiculous idea. Maybe they could have driving tests before the season and anyone who does laps of Ricard over a certain time are classified gentlemen and anyone who laps under that time is a pro?

Reminds me of the 3:50 lap time rule in GT1. Amazing how Corvette could lap at 3:50.1 all day in 2005/6, and the Astons would do occasional 3:47s just to offset their 3:51s to keep up... Thankfully that rule has proven to be unworkable, just as a "gentleman driver" rule in P2 will prove unworkable.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by TWK

Do we really need to know any more about why LMS events don't draw flies?

There is a real difference between glorified club racing and the kinds of events that fans will pay money to attend.

Historics are a class of their own because it's not really a "race" that attendees are going to, but an exhibition.

LMS and Grand Am have the same philosophy: Provide a place that wealthy people can race their cars. (I believe Peter has a history of this kind of event.)

Unfortunately, the two objective are fundimentally in conflict. Sports fans (all sports) want to see real competition between the best there is. They can't get that if rules conspire against it, and when they see something like this, well, they aren't stupid. They'll continue to "stay away in droves."

I respect your opinions, but it's getting tiring hearing the same old guff, how the ALMS is beyond criticism, the LMS is a dog etc.

The ALMS was a complete joke for a 3-4 year period, Audi utterly dominant, with Dyson having the odd flash of brilliance.

This year a rules workaround has guaranteed a good fight upfront, but P1 was a joke, once again.

The ALMS had to put on a show, draw in the fans, sponsors etc. from the go, thats how it works in the US, otherwise they would have sunk without trace.

In Europe it's possible to grow a sportscar series slowly (too slowly in the case of the LMS admittedly) by catering to the gemtleman driver crowd, then bring in better teams, manufactuers etc.

Teams are preppared to stick with, and invest in the LMS as it's a stable, ACO backed, series, something they haven;t been able to do since the Group C days.

Mid '90's FIA GT blew it's load with manufactuers and lots of promotion, unfortunately it lasted 2 years. FIA SCC on the other hand was too restrictive and conservative with it's cars, schedule etc. and was nothing but a glorified club series.

[GTfour]

"If you want to compete for overall wins, go to P1, simple really"

I disagree,since there´s no team in P1 able to offer any competition to the 908´s it´s seems to me that it´d be a good idea to spicen things up with a car that can,be it a P1 or P2 shouldn´t matter.

This makes me remember a whining and threatening Dr Ullrich of Audi´s race department,who was going on about how unfair it was that the RS Spyders and new Acura´s were getting so close to,and beating his beloved R10´s...
The guy was literally threatening to pull his cars out of the ALMS if he wouldn´t get it his way!