LM24 2007 Le Mans entry list - Page 6

old man · 23 Jan 2007, 13:47 (Ref:1823802)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilgrimage

Just wondering...
Does anything other than VAG stop a private R8 entry?
I guess in practice this would be hard, if not impossible to support though.

I would think only that question of getting the entry accepted but who owns one, just Champion and Sam Li so far as I know, who owns the Audi GB car?

**Bentley03** · 23 Jan 2007, 14:05 (Ref:1823812)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilgrimage

Just wondering...
Does anything other than VAG stop a private R8 entry?

The rules, the car's no longer allowed to race in Europe. It's no longer within LMS/Le mans ACO regs. The only place an R8 could race is now in the ALMS.

Graham Goodwin · 23 Jan 2007, 14:09 (Ref:1823818)

Or in Japan

old man · 23 Jan 2007, 14:11 (Ref:1823819)

Forgive my ignorance Mr Bentley (serious question) just how does it not comply

KaspervG · 23 Jan 2007, 14:40 (Ref:1823840)

Quote:

Originally Posted by old man

Forgive my ignorance Mr Bentley (serious question) just how does it not comply

It is not built to the current rules. It lacks the proper tub, aero and rollover hoops
In the ALMS they still let those cars (lola b01/60, audiR8) race, but not in the LMS.

mariantic · 23 Jan 2007, 15:24 (Ref:1823854)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bentley03

... The only place an R8 could race is now in the ALMS.

Just a small point, although the Autocon B01/60 is allowed in ALMS this year it is the only LMP675 or LMP900 to be so. The IMSA rule was Hybrids or Full LMP1 & 2s only from 2007. The exception was specific for Autocon at their request. Although there was speculation of what would happen if another "old" LMP applied for a "grandfathered" entry it never happened so the issue never came up...

Japan is a different matter and all LMP675s and LPM900s are allowed in JLMC for this year - for the last time.

Mariantic

**Bentley03** · 23 Jan 2007, 15:27 (Ref:1823855)

Quote:

Originally Posted by old man

Forgive my ignorance Mr Bentley (serious question) just how does it not comply

Sorry, I just assumed.........

Just to add to what KaspervG posted, the prototype classes have been going through a period of change over the last few years. I'll be as concise as I can!

The gradual transition to full 2006 regs started in 2005. Teams had the option of doing one of three things:

- run their 2004 cars, but with 50kg's ballast and smaller air restrictors (eg Audi and Rollcentre).

- run their 2004 cars with 2006 regs aerodynamic changes (eg Pescarolo, Courage and Dome), these cars are known as Hybrids.

- run a full new regs LMP (none in P1 but the Lola B05/40 was a full 2006 regs LMP2).

In 2006, the first of the above categories (2004 cars ballasted and restricted) were no longer allowed to race in Europe. The Hybrids were allowed to continue (Creation, Zytek and Lister joined the Hybrid ranks) and we saw the first full regs LMP1's (Audi R10's, Courage LC70's and Lola B06/10's).

For 2007, the hybrids will no longer be allowed to race in Europe. That's why the likes of Pescarolo, Creation and Zytek are building new compliant tubs.

So, the ALMS and JLMC (as Graham said) still allow the older cars to compete, but they are now obsolete in Europe.

Hope I've put that across reasonably clearly(?).

jhansen · 23 Jan 2007, 16:14 (Ref:1823879)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Sorry, I just assumed.........

Just to add to what KaspervG posted, the prototype classes have been going through a period of change over the last few years. I'll be as concise as I can!

The gradual transition to full 2006 regs started in 2005. Teams had the option of doing one of three things:

- run their 2004 cars, but with 50kg's ballast and smaller air restrictors (eg Audi and Rollcentre).

- run their 2004 cars with 2006 regs aerodynamic changes (eg Pescarolo, Courage and Dome), these cars are known as Hybrids.

- run a full new regs LMP (none in P1 but the Lola B05/40 was a full 2006 regs LMP2).

In 2006, the first of the above categories (2004 cars ballasted and restricted) were no longer allowed to race in Europe. The Hybrids were allowed to continue (Creation, Zytek and Lister joined the Hybrid ranks) and we saw the first full regs LMP1's (Audi R10's, Courage LC70's and Lola B06/10's).

For 2007, the hybrids will no longer be allowed to race in Europe. That's why the likes of Pescarolo, Creation and Zytek are building new compliant tubs.

So, the ALMS and JLMC (as Graham said) still allow the older cars to compete, but they are now obsolete in Europe.

Hope I've put that across reasonably clearly(?).

Good summary.

I would like to add, that the only reason older reg cars are allowed in the ALMS and JLMC is to supplement smaller prototype grids (unfortunately).

chernaudi · 23 Jan 2007, 20:49 (Ref:1824058)

And there are two(maybe three) reasons why the R8 doesn't run in the ALMS:

1) Champion Racing has essentially become the Audi ALMS factory team, and thus has two R10s. So they don't need to run the R8 anymore.

2) The teams that want to run R8s will have to abide by Audi Sport/VAG's own rules-which has scared away some, including(some say) Rob and Chris Dyson, among others.

3) Audi doesn't really want to spend anymore money on the R8 other than vintage stuff(1 or 2 run in vintage races). Both Champion's(for sure, as it's the last R8 to win an ALMS race) and Sam Li's R8s are probably museum pieces/vintage racers, the former being the most likely, especally for the ASNA/Champion Racing R8.

For the R8 to run in Europe, it would need at least a upper tub replacement(a la Dome and the first Pescarolo cars) to suit the new rules, as well as a new front and rear diffuser, new center floor, new body work, and a new tail, with shorter overhang, and a separate engine cover.

I hope that that answers the question on why there are no R8s scheduled to race in the ALMS or JLMC.

Pilgrimage · 24 Jan 2007, 09:17 (Ref:1824415)

Yes - that covers it

Thanks.
I was aware of the progression, but had forgotten that the R8 fell within the category no longer allowed.

isynge · 24 Jan 2007, 11:02 (Ref:1824496)

The only real question that still remains for me is precisely why the Goh R8 doesn't run in Japan? That however may well be for another thread.

old man · 24 Jan 2007, 11:55 (Ref:1824545)

Thanks for the info you technical experts, makes it easier for me to understand why a brilliant car, even when in private hands is not allowed to race. Would it qualify for SRO's new 90s races or was it first raced this century?

Pilgrimage · 24 Jan 2007, 12:33 (Ref:1824582)

Quote:

Originally Posted by old man

Thanks for the info you technical experts, makes it easier for me to understand why a brilliant car, even when in private hands is not allowed to race. Would it qualify for SRO's new 90s races or was it first raced this century?

The Audi R8R and R8C raced in 1999.

LC2guy · 24 Jan 2007, 13:11 (Ref:1824634)

However, the SRO 90's series is for GT cars, not prototypes.

neiltbag · 25 Jan 2007, 20:52 (Ref:1825963)

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC2guy

However, the SRO 90's series is for GT cars, not prototypes.

Excuse the brief thread hijack, but given that, which of the Mercedes CLK-GTR, CLK-LM and CLR would be eligible?

What about the Porsche GT1, GT1 Evo or GT1 '98?

Toyota TS020?

dj choc ice · 25 Jan 2007, 21:15 (Ref:1825978)

i think he means open prototypes, ala courage C52, BMW V12 LM, audi R8R, ferrari 333SP.

i think the toyota TS020 and 911 GT1 EVO and mercedes will be allowed to race because they were built to the GT1 regs. this would also include the nissan R390 and im very much looking forward to this championship when it comes around in may.

jhansen · 25 Jan 2007, 21:23 (Ref:1825986)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

i think the toyota TS020 and 911 GT1 EVO and mercedes will be allowed to race because they were built to the GT1 regs. this would also include the nissan R390 and im very much looking forward to this championship when it comes around in may.

Not very many of these are in private hands though correct?

isynge · 26 Jan 2007, 00:25 (Ref:1826120)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhansen

Not very many of these are in private hands though correct?

There are a couple of 911s out there, but I genuinely wouldn't hold my breath about any of the other bits of German and Japanese exotica making an appearance.

This looks a lot more like an attempt at putting some old school BPR era machinery to work rather than bring back the late 1990s uber-cars. That said, surely this discussion belongs in a different thread - where we could have fun to our hearts' content.

The Badger · 26 Jan 2007, 12:06 (Ref:1826376)

Autosport are reporting in the mag , that BMS will run a Spyder in the LMS and Le Mans .....

Graham Goodwin · 26 Jan 2007, 12:44 (Ref:1826426)

In 2008

gwyllion · 26 Jan 2007, 13:18 (Ref:1826471)

Primat will drive for Pescarolo.

source: http://www.endurance-info.com/article.php?sid=3095

prototype · 26 Jan 2007, 14:16 (Ref:1826527)

I guess Primat is paying for that second car effort.

**Bentley03** · 26 Jan 2007, 14:48 (Ref:1826540)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Primat will drive for Pescarolo.

So, Autosport were wrong when they said he was on his way to Creation............

The Badger · 26 Jan 2007, 14:56 (Ref:1826544)

Maybe Herbert for Creation !!!

gwyllion · 26 Jan 2007, 15:45 (Ref:1826589)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Primat will drive for Pescarolo.

source: http://www.endurance-info.com/article.php?sid=3095

Jean-Christophe Boullion and Emmanuel Collard will drive the 1st car and Harold Primat the 2nd.

source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56492

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