The Meeting

[Liz]

From My Friends at British Racing Green

==================

CART ANNOUNCES PLANS TO ENHANCE SENIOR MANAGEMENT TEAM

DETROIT (December 4, 2001) - Championship Auto Racing Teams, Inc. (NYSE:MPH) announced today that Joseph F. Heitzler, Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President, with the concurrence of the Board of Directors, has decided that the company will immediately begin a search for a new President and CEO.

The restructuring has been approved in the belief that an enhanced senior management team will better address the wide variety of challenges facing the open-wheel racing organization.

Heitzler will continue to oversee CART's day-to-day operations until the executive search is completed. No timetable was established for completion of the project. Once a new President and CEO is hired, Heitzler will remain with the company as Chairman of the Board of Directors.

"Today, the Board unanimously recognized my passion, dedication and leadership," said Heitzler, who joined the company one year and one day ago. "I will continue as Chairman and CEO of CART while we conduct a search for a President and CEO to add to the senior management team.

"After the search is completed, I will continue as CART's Chairman of the Board. I remain totally dedicated to CART and its sponsors, teams, television partners, race promoters, shareholders, and especially our fans. I wish to thank the Board for this new challenge."

==================

What do you think of this?

[domaza]

So Heitzler really is out of business. Don't know is it good or bad - we didn't loose much, because it wasn't good season as we all know. Still he got that TV deal, but where is international one? We here in Europe and all over the world need that! Time to start heavy off-season work @ CART and time to be on TURBOS in 2003! It's time for Penske to sat @ CART and it's time to ROCK in 2002!

[Dr. Austin]

Hopefully, whoever they get will be good. Alot of people liked Bobby Rahal, but alot of people also blame him for some of today's problems. I see CART's problem as they have gotten too far away from their roots. By installing Penske or Patrick or even Gurney (who probably has no interest at all) they establish a link to what once made them so great. They have enornously capable leadership at their disposal and i am mystified why they never seem to call upon it.

Dale Coyne has been mentioned, and while he hasn't had the success as an owner that he deserves, he did a good job as interem CART president. He has kept his team afloat for years on next to nothing, so he must have some good business sense. He has also been around since 1985 or so, meaning he has a good sense of the sport's history and traditions. He is also no longer actively involved running a race team, so there will be no conflict of interest.

Once i saw Uncle Joe speak in pig latin (or something foriegn) at the Texas cancellation conference, I lost complete respect for the guy. All I could think the whole time he was speaking was how disingenious he was and how he purposely designed his speech pattern to decieve. He reminded me of a guy we had eight years too much of recently. So, I am not surprised (nor disappionted) that he is going. I much preferred Rahal's approach to doing business and addressing the public in plain no-nonsense english. Perhaps Bobby might have been in over his head, but I never once felt that he was being dishonest or decietful. I always felt that way when Joe was speaking.

So i feel that this is a good thing for CART and hope they get someone who can lead them to better times. I have been extremely critical of the CART hierachy, and for good reason as they had a disasterous 2001, but i will always love the series for all it's great racing and diverse kinds of challenges.

Hopefully they can pull their heads out and we can all get back to talking about racing instead of all this other nonsense. We may never see unification, but hopefully the two sides can reach a mutual co-operative existance. Both sides need each other waaaaaay more than they are willing to realize. We can see it, but they may be too close to the forest.

[Liz]

Although Rahal did a professoinal job in his tenure with Champ Cars as Interim Pres, I am not in favour of him taking the job over permanently because he sucks up big time to The Man That Ruined Indy (may fleas infest his mother's burqa) and would willingly emasculate and destroy Champ Cars just to please his hero.

Chris Pook is my man - the man who loves road and street courses and the only man who ever faced down Bernie.

And I too hope that we get back to discussing racing and not politics.

Like, for instance, Gil won the Fourth Quarter All Disciplines Driver Balloting! And the best the All Amurrican Roundy Rounders could do was Jeff Gordon in THIRD!

[The Beer Baron]

Unlike Heitzler, Pook is respected by the racing world, I don't think motorsport people will take pop shots at him like they did to an outsider like Heitzler.

Hulman-George have IMS which is strongly linked to Indianapolis,
Bill France made Daytona I.S. which has strong links with NASCAR & Daytona Beach
Chris Pook made LBGP, which turned the city of LB around.

Chris Pook is the man, give him whatever he wants he'll put the ship in gear!

[macdaddy]

Has Pook ever shown an interest in the job? Or has he ever been approached about it in the past? Surely, he's the man the CART needs right now. He knows his racing, and he knows how to promote.

[Jimmyz360]

I think they need to take the F1 approach...which is to hire 1 man to make big decisions, I know democracies are good but the reason F1 is so big is that they have had Bernie Ecclestone make all decisions without any of the critics and backroom talk that has followed CART and its leaders. Personally I dont mind turbos but I wont miss them too much. But if they change to a crappy all motor spec with about 12k rev limiter, screw that, leave it as turbo. But I think Heiltzer may have done a lot or a little, but its like the CEO of a company, you may have not done anything wrong but if your company takes a hit the boss takes the blaim too.

[nem]

Unfortunately, those of us interested in CART racing have been forced to follow the politics ever since they went public.

Pook was in the running for the job a little over a year ago along with Heitzler. He bowed out of the running when it became apparent he would not be given enough authority to run the series with minimal interference from the owners.

Recent news articles have said Pook is the clear front runner to replace Heitzler as President and CEO.

Pook has a life time contract with Dover Downs Entertainment and would have to resign that position before he could accept the job with CART. It seems that will take up to a week. There have been rumors that he has already spoken with a couple of the major sponsors.

Pook is favored by Vannini and Grosfield, who are major stockholders, a majority of the team owners, and just about everyone else involved in CART. Heitzler had the support of Forsythe, also a major stckholder, and Ganassi and that's probably why he retains Chairmanship of the Delaware Board.

All indications are that Pook will be the new President/CEO of CART.

We just have to wait a little longer so he can affect his exit from DDE, gracefully.

If, somehow, Pook doesn't wind up with the job, I will be very :confused: and

[KC]

The problem is that you cannot hire someone to come in and run your series with an iron fist. Bernie owns F1 and the teams are beholden to him. He makes the pie possible and the teams get a little piece of it. CART is publicly owned and the owners each have some amount of stock. For anyone to come in and take over they would need to buy up the majority of the stock. I wish Pook could do just that.

The experiment of team owners owning the series has failed as far as CART is concerned. Too much infighting and politics among the owners. One of the biggest reasons that F1 and NASCAR are so huge is that they are run with an iron fist and no dissention is allowed. It keeps the series focussed and directed toward making themselves better. That fdoe snot mean if one individual took over that everything would become peahces and cream. The IRL illustrates just that. It is no better or worse than CART currently is.

If Vanini somehow took over CART, how many teams would stay in the series? Not very many I am afraid. This guy is a gas can in a burning house.

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Liz

"The Man That Ruined Indy (may fleas infest his mother's burqa)"

As someone who lost loved ones on 9/11, I find this comment extremely offensive and unnecessary. I buried alot of dear people after that day and picking at American's wounds is not nice. I am trying to be polite. Excuse me. Or excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me!

You also don't act like a nice person when you wish harm on people you have probably never even met. People who have never harmed you at all. If motor racing is that important to you, perhaps I can write you a prescriptionm for a nice tranquilizer. You are going to need something if you harbor these kinds of ill feelings over something that is utterly meaningless in humanities' grand scheme.

Motor racing is meaningless. It is entertainment. It is supposed to be fun, not a vehicle for creating new enemies. If you learn these wise words, you will have a hell of alot better time.

Mary Hulman George is a nice woman with a wonderful sense of humor, something you might do you well to acquire. She can also outcook anyone you ever knew. Even my Mom. She is class all the way. She can be my mom any day. Well, no one can replace Mom. But Mary can be my Aunt. My Aunt who cooks like a demon.

Of course I expect to be insulted for this. Bring it on.



"and would willingly emasculate and destroy Champ Cars just to please his hero."

Wake up! CART's leadership's own ineptness has emasculated chumpcars. THEY put themselves where they are now and Tony George bears absolutely no responsibility for CART's self destruction.

And Bobby Rahal? Now one has been more loyal to CART than Bobby Rahal. Just because his sponsor insists he take their colors into the world's greatest and most visible race doesn't make Bobby a turn coat or Tony kiss-up. Are all CART fans so ready to crucify anyone who doesn't count George as the anti-christ?

Maybe CART wouldn't be in such trouble if it's fans weren't so ready to kill and eat their own the moment one of them falls out of lock step "Hiel Hietzler!" I hope you don't end up hating everyone.




"Chris Pook is my man - the man who loves road and street courses and the only man who ever faced down Bernie."

And lost. Pook sure showed him, didn't he? Tony now has the USGP (which Pook wasn't saavy enough to hang on to), exactly where it belongs. Exactly where NASCAR's most prestigeous event is. And Tony also now has CART's marquee event. Pook had better get to work fast. Tony just might want to race at Long Beach. It wouldn't be the first time Tony acquired someone else's marquee event, would it?





"And I too hope that we get back to discussing racing and not politics."

Yeah, but but will you give up wishing harm on the George family? Give it up. None of them ever hurt you. How many times have you ever had lunch with any of them? How many times has Tony shared his vision with you? Have you ever bothered to listen? Have you shook the man's hand and looked into his eyes? No one is more genuine and he remains the real deal. If you gave him a chance.....well that suggestion is pointless, isn't it?

Have you ever tried Mary's apple pie?

Tony got his vision from his grandfather, the man who saved the speedway the first time. Tony Hulman was the wisest and most beloved figure that American racing has ever known. He passed this vision down to his grandson so the Indianapolis 500 would, and does, remain the greatest race the world will ever see.


I'm sick of people in racing being attacked personally for no reason. The George family has been left the responsibility of protecting the Indianapolis Motor Speedway and seeing that it prospers. Take a look around the speedway and you will see real prosperity. They are doing a better job than Mr. Hulman could have ever dreamed.

[KC]

Wake up! CART's leadership's own ineptness has emasculated chumpcars. THEY put themselves where they are now and Tony George bears absolutely no responsibility for CART's self destructio

While I do agree in principle with this, I do believe that Tony George was instrumental in getting ABC Sports to downgrade all of CART's TV packages to the point that ratings were destroyed. When ABC Sports signed the 10 year deal to cover the Indy 500 CART's TV package went to hell quickly. Races were held on any of three different channels, pre-empted at will for meaningless reasons and curtialed to minimal race coverage only. CART is partly to blame for not demanding better treatment or leaving ABC Sports but they are not solely to blame.

The George family has been left the responsibility of protecting the Indianapolis Motor Speedway and seeing that it prospers. Take a look around the speedway and you will see real prosperity. They are doing a better job than Mr. Hulman could have ever dreamed.

Certainly I have no problem with Tony George defending his race. He can burn the place down if he wants it is his to do with as he sees fit. However, the Indy 500 has been an afterthought event when compared to the Brickyard 500 and the US Grand Prix ever since he shut out CART. I fail to see how they are doing a better job than Mr. Hulman (who I hold in highest esteem) when it takes stock cars and F1 cars to keep the place interesting. Mr. Hulman made that speedway what it was with only one race a year. The world famous Indianpolis 500. That's was when it mattered in the world of motorsports who won the big race.

The year Kenny Brack won Indy Racing League only Indy 500 no one gave a flying damn about it except IRL fans and their drivers and teams. This year when Castroneves took top honors it was front page news on more than just racing periodicals, it became world news.

I do not think Bobby Rahal would make a good CEO because he is a team owner first. He could be in conflict of interest. Chris Pook would be a better choice becasue he is one of the world's premier race promoters. He is highly respected among race track owners, race team owners and even by Bill France. BTW, the reason why Pook lost the Long Beach F1 Grand Prix is that the sanctioning fee became more than the total combined gate from tickets. It became a money losing proposition to the promoter to hold the event. Also consider that F1 does not do street course events as well as they do road course events, Monaco excluded. Dallas, Phoenix and Las Vegas are all examples of F1 street races that failed.

I do agree that personal insults should be avoided however. None of us know these people, we are not married to them or live in their homes, we know only their personas and that is constantly spun by their agents and mass media.

[Dr. Austin]

KC;

It is certainly hard to argue much of what you have said. I think we are disagreeing more on the way we actually see things rather than the actual facts of the topic.

The entire sport of OW racing is in a constant state of flux. It isn't really a shift in the balance of power because Tony has always had the power. He is just now wielding it to such good effect. He waited a long time and ate alot of, errrr, dirt, before he rocked the boat. He also sat and watched and learned what his competition's weaknesses are. He has always known exactly where he and his league are going and has never once waivered in the drive to accomplish his vision.

CART, on the other hand, is in a fair bit of chaos right now. CART is the only series I can ever remember that prospered while being run by the compeditors. OSCAR was going great guns as well, but the FIA couldn't let anything get as big as F-1, so they shut it down and destroyed sportscar racing, which remains a shadow of it's former self even to this day nearly 15 years later.

The IRL is merely following NASCAR's example of benovelent dictatorship. And Tony is rapidly becoming Indycar's version of Bernie Ecclestone. No one will argue that CART has a real problem relenquishing control to it's cheif executive/president. So you can see that CART and the IRL (and Nascar & F-1)are run in two completely different fasions.

If CART were to bring on Pook, he would only be effective if they actually let him have control and make the hard decisions. Even then, he will always have to answer to someone, unlike Ecclestone, France or George. In Pook's case, that would be the stockholders, and they have their own interests at heart as well. CART needs a dictator who only cares about the sport itself. They don't need the people in charge supplying engines or promoting races.

Conflict of interest is what had the speedway so upset to start with. The pushrod Mercedes that Penske alone was able to get is what finally pushed George to break away. CART's continued push to mimic F-1 brought the sport way too far from it's roots and the speedway couldn't allow it. In Indycar racing, Indianapolis and the 500 must always come first, not a public company where the bottom line is more important that 80 years of tradition.

the Indianapolis Motor Speedway has never strayed from it's roots and traditions. This is what has made it so great. But they have also refused to change with the times. I personally don't believe that sprint and midget racing is the best way to gain the skills necessary to go 225+mph superspeedway racing. For one thing, the cars are so completly different. Yet, the speedway is still clinging to the glorious USAC days and wanting to promote these drivers to the IRL. This is great, but they are going to get spanked if they don't learn rear engined skills first (not withstanding Tony Stewart, who had 3,000 miles of testing before his first IRL race). Hopefully, the new Infinity series will address this problem.

But I have only one real view of the entire mess. When you look at the skyrocketing success of the IRL and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, who looks to be the best suited to run the sport? CART? Look at the utter chaos they have put themselves into all by themselves. And the IRL? Smooth sailing, baby!

[nem]

Quote: By KC

"I fail to see how they are doing a better job than Mr. Hulman (who I hold in highest esteem) when it takes stock cars and F1 cars to keep the place interesting".

IMS has 3 races per year now instead of 1. That's a 300% improvement.

Three times as many people, like concessionaires among others, get the opportunity of employment during the races at IMS.

I imagine the hotel, restaurant owners aren't complaining.

The city of Indianapolis gets more national/international exposure.

IMS didn't need to be kept interesting, not with the history it has.

I would bet there are a lot of people in that part of Indiana that hold Tony George in pretty high esteem too. I would also bet Tony Hulman would be just proud as punch at what Tony has done.

Grass don't grow under Tony George.

[Dr. Austin]

Thanks, nem. Excellent post and excellent points. i tend to look at what is going on out of the track and i miss alot of the sublties like hot dog sales and motel reservations. Of course, it isn't so subtle when it is your job that depends on the speedway putting fans in the seats.

And there is just no argument that this is the finest year of Indycar competition we have ever seen. We had CART give us some great road and street races and that dazzling Michigan 500. But they also had a few stinklers too. They had some races that were run so badly that the SCCA should have stepped in, but to be fair, some of that was due to atrocious weather. Equally fair, they made a real mess of the Road America race that should have never been started until the problem was fixed. Portland was just stupid driving and maybe the fact that Firestone has always had a crappy rain tire. After investing two hours of my time in the Vancouver race, it was utterly ruined by completely inept officiating. The european races were plagued by rain and CART did a good job just to get them in the books, but i can't remember that last full distance road race that CART had. I don't consider that to be a good value. And Laguna? errrrrr........

Conversely, the IRL had one rip roaring well run spectacle after the other. Atlanta saw a massive pile up caused by a blown engine and oil on the track and it was the worst race of the year for them. Texas 1 was a smoker, but Davey's accident took the joy out of it. And we were worried about Robbie McGehee as well, but he hardly missed a race. Guts seems to be a real requirement to be an IRL driver. But wait until Zanardi straps in again if you want to see guts.

Aside from those two disappointments, the IRL guys ran three abreast nearly everwhere they went. Most of the races weren't decided until the checkered was in the air. There was plenty of wheel banging, passing, and hair raising action, and that was just Jacques lazier!

Yeah, the IRL was the skankiest racing series the world had ever seen right up until this year, but something funny happened. They got it together and gave me personally the damndest racing I've seen in 40 years as a student of the sport. I was hard to convince and every race i said to myself "Yeah, yeah. so what? They went three races without making fools of themselves." But it went five, six, seven races, an entire season of world class 220mph+ ****s to the walls mega thrilling action. So i began the season convinced that the IRL was low rent and second class, but you can tell that i have been converted.

Of course CART has the teams with the best resourses. They have the sponsors and that pays for the best of everything from drivers, engines, wind tunnel programs and right down to who has the softest toilet paper in their Newell motor home. No surprise that they dominated Indy. disappointing, sure. Surprising? David got the drop on Golliath once. Once. Jacques will be the next to get the drop.

But the IRL teams have upped their game since then. It may not be enough to make most teams competitive with the really big dogs, but no one will bet their house right now against Jacques Lazier. He is on a team with funding to match most, if not all, CART teams. He is on fire and only the fools will take him lightly.

But we have gotten way off track and it is certainly my fault. i feel that Hietzler was the worst thing that could have ever happened to CART. Sure, he inherited some problems, but others, like the pop off snafu, he mishandled to the point that Honda expressed serious doubt over CART's integrity. Integrity! You have to really muck it up to get that kind of insult from your most loyal engine company and sponsor. Integrity. What do you have when you lose that?

So now we can all breathe alot easier that he won't have the reins much longer. I am sure that Elmer Fudd would be a more credible and honest talking guy than Joe. CART took a hell of alot of unnecessary hits because of Joe and they would be better off to give him his golden parachute and bounce him out into the street. Anyone they get will be better. Just get someone who speaks real, clean, straight and plain English and i will probably like him. And the series will do better too.

So, please pardon me for indulging in a rant about how good the on track action was this year. I made myself famous elsewhere by my signature that read;

"We are in the promised land, baby!!! 35 a**kicking races. backs to the walls, wheel to wheel and flat footed. It has never been this good and it will never be again. Baby, let the good times roll."
Dr. Michael Austin, 2001

[Liz]

I'm sorry if you considered my personal dislike of Tony George, whom I maintain is the man that ruined Indy, to be an insult to you. I did not mean to insult you by comparing his mother to the wife of a Taliban. That was rude, as you so rightly point out. But I maintain my opinion that Tony George is the man that not only ruined Indy but caused the chaos evident in open wheeled racing today by his unabashed attempt to turn it into his private playground populated only by oval-racing Americans, and I maintain that it is obvious, as KC says, that this is not what the rest of the world wishes to see.

In everything else I agree with KC's excellent post above, and I will not back down from my support of Chris Pook, whose refusal to ruin himself for Bernie Ecclestone's enrichment -- and what a man Bernie's age is wasting his time trying to bankrupt the world for his personal enrichment is way beyond me -- remains a heroic and unrivalled act of sound business sense. IMO he didn't "lose" the Long Beach GP so much as he refused to prostitute himself to keep it. Not unlike what the rest of us are urging on the next Champ Car CEO regarding Tony George.

[KC]

Having three races at the speedway is not necessarily 300% better, just 300% more. When Mr. Hulman ran the Speedway he only needed one race to make that place one of the most historic races in the world. Now, I agree that it is good business to add in the races even though the road circuit has some very lame sections. But, that place existed as the single greatest racing track in this hemisphere for over 70 years until the IRL began. The IRL in and of itself did not damage the place but the exclusion of the top open wheel drivers in North America did.

I agree that sprints, USAC Champ cars and midgets are excellent breeding grounds for great drivers, but does that mean Toyota Atlantics and Formula Ford are not? All are breeding grounds for premier racers.

I have never questioned the abilities of the drivers in the IRL as a whole although as an entire group I believe the CART drivers hold an edge over them. They do have excellent races, but Americans are going to see stock cars race on ovals these days, not Indy Cars. This can easily be seen at every CART and IRL venue except Indy, Texas and Cicero (Target Grand Prix of Chicago). CART continues to explode at their street and road course events. The IRL race at Kansas went over big because it was the first race and if you wanted to see the WC cars you had to purchase an IRL ticket as well. Next year will be the litmus test for the IRL at Kansas. That is a shame because CART and the IRL cars are a ton more exciting to watch on an oval than Winston Cup (my opinion and apparently not the opinion of 99% of the American motorsports public).

A lot of the bad racing that plagued the IRL early on has disappeared because the drivers are getting better and the teams are becoming more professional. That is only a natural progression. Also racers like Scott Sharp, the Lazier brothers, and Sam Hornish are forcing everyone to up their game as they continually raise the bar.

CART has made some bad mistakes this year concerning more than a few races. The popoff valve fiasco was inexcusable and heads needed to roll over that. The Texas 500 was another black eye as well. I think that Heitzler was hung out to dry by the CART teams owners on thsi deal along with his lack of communication skills. He had no idea what was going on and every knowledgeable fan could see that the train was jumping the track. The CART team owners allowed him to make this mistake. It is not his job to administer the races, police the rules and organize the event, it was his job to make the series run like an entertainment business. CART's tech delegates dropped the ball, CART owners got cheap and did not adequately test at Texas and that lies squarely on their shoulders.

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC


"The IRL in and of itself did not damage the place but the exclusion of the top open wheel drivers in North America did."

Thankfully, everyone is coming back.



"I agree that sprints, USAC Champ cars and midgets are excellent breeding grounds for great drivers,"

I still think rear engined experience is necessary if the guys are going to compete with rear engined trained drivers.



"I have never questioned the abilities of the drivers in the IRL as a whole although as an entire group I believe the CART drivers hold an edge over them."


Money. Sponsorship makes it possible to get the best of everything, including drivers. Yeah, for the most part, CART drivers are pretty good, but they have a couple of bozos running around as well. Even F-1 has some guys that don't belong there.



"A lot of the bad racing that plagued the IRL early on has disappeared because the drivers are getting better and the teams are becoming more professional"

There were also issues with the new cars. The airboxes on the pre-2001 cars were shaped wrong and blanketing the rear wings in turbulent air. This was leading to unpredictable snap oversteer and , of course, nasty accidents. My thoery is just get rid of the airboxes and problem solved. Then they won't need a minimum wing angle rule.

But they sure got it right for 2002. Sadly, next year is the last for the current IRL cars. I hope they don't change the rules too much as you can really race these cars.

CART is going to have to figure it out because the Handford device is ruining their oval races. The wings they ran on the european tour were a big step forward. Hopefully they will run that package, or something similar, all next year.


"That is only a natural progression. Also racers like Scott Sharp, the Lazier brothers, and Sam Hornish are forcing everyone to up their game as they continually raise the bar."


Watch out for Jacques. You have all been warned.



"CART has made some bad mistakes this year concerning more than a few races. The popoff valve fiasco was inexcusable and heads needed to roll over that."

Looking back on it, that is probably the one that did Joe in.




"The Texas 500 was another black eye as well. I think that Heitzler was hung out to dry by the CART teams owners on thsi deal along with his lack of communication skills."

Actually, I believe his skills are just fine. If you can get a tape and watch it again, Joe strung as many long words together as he could. He purposely designed his speech pattern to decieve. We have seen this plenty of times before. We just got through with eight years of this kind of thing. "I did not have sex with that woman." So, we are on to that technique. And this is where I completely lost respect for the guy. It doesn't take much honor to lead people down the merry path and decieve them, and I believe that is the way Joe operates.

Give me a guy who speaks in plain english. Please.



"It is not his job to administer the races, police the rules and organize the event,"

No, that is Chris Kniefel's job and he had a torrid time of it. Just ask Paul Tracy about it. Kniefel dropped the ball plenty. Hopefully he will have learned from some of the 2001 disasters and next year will be better. Or maybe they can clone Wally Dallenbach. Of course, he had his share of circus antics, too.

Has anyone ever been to an auto race when nothing unexpected happened? Of course not. Just when you think you have seen it ALL, something wierd happens. Like at LeMans when the Mercedes were flying off into the woods. No one could have seen that coming (though it had happened before). Well, maybe we could have seen it after it had happened twice, but Mercedes was sure mystified. And that is just an example of how events you never see coming can just bite you right in the butt.

And Kniefel had some of that going on too. Like the Texas race. We thought we had seen everything, but drivers were never passing out before. This is a twighlight zone kind of sport, isn't it? Who would have ever thought we would see fighter jet performance from these cars?

Now that it is over and no one got hurt, I think it just shows how awesome those cars are. Too awesome.



"CART owners got cheap and did not adequately test at Texas and that lies squarely on their shoulders."

I agree. But I have mentioned Texas before and I don't want anyone to misinderstand me. CART had absolutely NO choice but to cancel the race. It was not a tough decision. There was no decision to be made. It would have been impossible to have run that race with all the drivers passing out.

Where I have been critical of CART is that they refused to return the money. Hey, they got paid for a race they didn't put on and made the speedway take them to court to get their money.

Lastly, if anyone is still with me here, I don't plan to post much on the Indycar forum anymore. I did not mean to get hostile, but it happened. The politics of all this has beeen hammered into all of us and I promised myself i wouldn't get involved in it on this new site.
I love both series and want to see them both prosper, but some of what I see going on makes me crazy. My plan is to just stick to talking about cars and racing, because that is all I really care about.

So i will be on the sportscar forum more. But I don't mind coming back here to talk about what goes on out on the track.

And also, I am sorry that I was so hard on Liz.

[macdaddy]

As previously posted by Dr. Austin,

"We had CART give us some great road and street races and that dazzling Michigan 500."

"...the Handford device is ruining their oval races."

Since the inclusion of the various Handford devices, the superspeedway events have been breathtaking!

[Dr. Austin]

Originally posted by macdaddy
As previously posted by Dr. Austin,

"We had CART give us some great road and street races and that dazzling Michigan 500."

"...the Handford device is ruining their oval races."

Since the inclusion of the various Handford devices, the superspeedway events have been breathtaking!

"

Well, sort of. We get great action, but when all you have to do is just tuck in behind and get a 20mph tow, is that real? Is that racing? And the handford has really destroyed all the racing on the miles. When the 3.5's come on, there will be no need for it, so adios!

Then we can get back to some real wheel to wheel stuff. Now they just blow by each other. The IRL cars run three abreast for almost the whole race and i think that is what we really want to see.

Michigan was just dazzling. But something is really missing when all the passes are artificially induced by dragging around a "9 rear facing billboard.

So for the final word on this, I think Alex Zanardi's observations are probably the correct ones.

[macdaddy]

Oh yes, I cannot argue anything you've just said, Doctor. I was at Michigan, and it wasn't really Carpentier's race to win. And I might even suggest that the H.device may have played a role in it being the Rahal boys' race to lose. The air behind Herta's car was was likely pretty "dirty". But I've seen alot of races where there ends up being only one or two cars on the lead lap, and although that is "true racing", it isn't necessarily great entertainment. That's something you don't see in NASCAR, and what CART needs more than anything else is to attract new fans. And events like the post-Handford 500's are much more likely to do that. The race would have been much less entertaining if Brack and Papis were alone on the lead lap, with 20 seconds separating them, and Gidley and Herta likewise separated, the only cars less than 2 laps behind. Conversely, the Montoya/Andretti battles were classic.

[Liz]

When the season starts again, we will be much less political. This nonsense just goes on during the off-season when nobody has anything else to talk about.

I've even been at a CART site where somebody started a thread wondering if any of the drivers were gay! Fortunately most peoples' attitude was "Who cares?"

And that is rapidly becoming my opinion of all the handbaggery going on in Champ Cars. Who cares? Just get out there and drive!

[nem]

Ah, but there has to be a series to drive in!!!!!!!!

As we see from the Penske/Marlboro announcement earlier today, CART's inability to manage itself effectively could result in its demise.

They just lost their premier team, the winningest team in it's history. They just lost the 2001 series Championship driver and his co-driver that sparked plenty of media interest with his fence climbing celebrations on winning a race. They just lost a major team sponsor. How many other sponsors may make the same decision for 2003? They just lost 2 cars from their 2002 starting fields, just as several previously 2 car CART teams are scrambeling to find sponsors for their 2nd cars next year. Not good!!!!!!!! I will continue my support to the end, if it comes to that......