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2 Jan 2012, 01:19 (Ref:3006303) | #1326 | |||
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2 Jan 2012, 01:56 (Ref:3006306) | #1327 | ||
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2 Jan 2012, 05:12 (Ref:3006322) | #1328 | ||
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While I understand certain concerns, the ACO need to have an eye on each continent, emerging markets and global rivals, not because they've got ideas above their station, because the time is right to revive the history and tradition of the World Sportscar Championship. Sebring would slot into that elite group of races with ease, but there are new and old candidates too. |
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2 Jan 2012, 06:12 (Ref:3006325) | #1329 | ||
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This has nothing to do with there being a world championship or not. If the ACO wants a new series, fine. But why grab money (especially blood money) at the expense of fans who you know could be fans of the new series? That's the kind of stuff F1 and the IRL does and it's the same thing Champ Car did. F1 does it because they know the braindead herd will still follow the wolf no matter how far it gets shoved up their you know what. Champ Car did it and the IRL does it because they're desperate and they live off silly desperation heaves. A new series does not have a brainwashed herd (well, not much of one at least) nor should a new series be desperate when they have golden opportunities right in front of them. So, ultimately, what's the justification? There's no long term justification to be in Bahrain (even Bernie struggles to come up with a justification) and no justification to cheese off at least one large potential fan base. |
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2 Jan 2012, 13:01 (Ref:3006396) | #1330 | |||
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This whole structure they've built is poorly thought out, and bound to self destruct. It's almost laughable. Slow moving train wreck... |
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2 Jan 2012, 14:20 (Ref:3006409) | #1331 | ||
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I really don't see where this negativity is coming from, everything looks like the WEC is off to an awesome start with a great entry list for the first year. I don't see the mismanagement or the train wreck.. those are attributes that other series and promotors deserve. Sports car racing is absolutely booming right now and the lion share of credit for that goes to the ACO. |
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2 Jan 2012, 16:18 (Ref:3006450) | #1332 | ||
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When will the LOLA, present the 2012 version of is LMP 1 Version??
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2 Jan 2012, 19:51 (Ref:3006519) | #1333 | ||
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Wasnt there supposed to be some big breaking news today , something about a new GT team stepping up to proto , released today , the 2nd of Jan .
RaceAlliance ? |
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2 Jan 2012, 19:54 (Ref:3006521) | #1334 | ||
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I suspect the WEC was always the long term goal .
Years were spent coaxing teams to come and join the LMS/ALMS/ILMC ..... now with a decent selection to choose from various championships , the WEC is a go . I think the ACO have done a decent job . If the ALMS cant get their **** together , thats their issue . We now have a true world class championship , why the complaining . Isnt it what we all wanted , for so long ? |
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2 Jan 2012, 20:05 (Ref:3006532) | #1335 | ||
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Is it the ACO's fault that the American economy is in the crapper? No. Is it the ACO's fault that the ALMS isn't able to negotiate a proper TV deal? No. Those are local problems that have nothing to do with international sports car racing, the ACO have done their homework. In just eight years, they have first launched a successful European sports car series that has now spun off a true world championship. And all that from the rubble that was the end of the FIA SCC, when prototype racing in Europe (aside from Le Mans) was basically dead. |
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2 Jan 2012, 20:33 (Ref:3006543) | #1336 | ||
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The ALMS has bent , twisted and done what they think is right for their series , still their finding it hard to get decent grids but , as far as I am concerned , next year is looking better than this year , except for the doom sayers .
Some teams changed class , some teams are gone , some teams are new ..... isnt this the way it always goes ? The whole point of the ALMS/ELMS and WEC is that teams can compete on a national level or step it up and go international with the big boys . Excellant idea . Remember before Don Panoz , differant championships , cars wernt eligable for other championships ..... I think they have done a great job . Of course its not perfect ..... tell me something that is ? I think the ACO should be lamented for getting this far , and not lambasted at every opportunity . One other point ..... just look at the various motorsport championships in America , and how their managed ..... is that supposed to inspire us ? I will leave it at that . |
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2 Jan 2012, 23:50 (Ref:3006594) | #1337 | ||
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Some people want to justify the WEC's covetous attitude on the basis of the ALMS being quite barren now. Well, the ALMS turning into crap makes the WEC's tactics even more puzzling. Many ALMS fans aren't being satisfied by the ALMS at the moment. If another series came along and offered the American fans a better show, they would be interested in follow that. That could have been a possibility for growth there for the WEC, but instead the WEC wants to take a dump on American fans. The American fans know when they are getting screwed and they aren't going to put up with it. Just look at Indycar grandstands and TV ratings to see how that works. The WEC brand of stupidity isn't limited to America though. It will have an impact elsewhere. Stupid decisions never occur in a vacuum. Oh, and justifying stupidity by saying that the WEC is less stupid than the ALMS isn't the answer. Stupid is stupid regardless of how that stupidity compares to others. It's also not about there being a world championship or not. It does not matter if it's a world championship or the championship of France, it has to be run wisely and strategically. Given that it is a world championship, ****ing off a large number of potential fans in one part of the world in order to grab a bag of blood money isn't wise and strategic thinking. |
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3 Jan 2012, 00:30 (Ref:3006600) | #1338 | |||
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I can see many people pointing to next year, and thinking everything is wonderful. To draw a parallel, this is like people suggesting that stocks aren't worth owning, because the market isn't doing well right now. No thoughts given to how it got there, what catalysts are out there to change things, or how actions will change the course of things. Sure, the WEC should be good for a couple of years, but the whole format is going to leave sportscar racing in a mess at some point. It wasn't necessary, and lack management acumen. The right thing to do was easy to see, and basically would have achieved the same thing. This had the chance to be very good, but they screwed it up. That some people can't see that for now, fair enough... sometimes decent grids in the moment are good enough. Just as the ALMS looked great in 07', 08'.. it was easy to see they were actually in trouble, and making the wrong decisions. Just as the stock markets and economies were in trouble in 07' and early 08' were easy to see... It will take some time, but this is going to fold up like a cheap deck of cards at some point, leaving things in disarray, that will take years to recover from. |
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3 Jan 2012, 01:12 (Ref:3006606) | #1339 | |||
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I agree , its not nice to get screwed , but the ACO are looking after #1 first , and that is their 24 hour race , and you cant blame them for that . They did get screwed by the Fia in 1992 , and havent forgotten that , 29 entries with 19 finishers . If America does come up with their own series , which they have tried to do to some effect , with respect to differing regulations from the original rules , then you will see less American teams doing the 24 hours of Le Mans , cuz the cars wont be eligable I fear . My idea , is we all should be working together to make sportscars truely international , and not national only . And as far as the ACO goes , they have tried , failed in some ways but also that is hardly their fault as they dont control the finances of the world . Its also the only proto championship thats worth watching , and we should be grateful that we have this and from where im looking , it looks rosy , with no glass's !!! |
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3 Jan 2012, 01:56 (Ref:3006608) | #1340 | ||
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Sports car racing had a working world championship for decades until Ecclestone ruined it. Saying that a world championship will somehow automatically mess things up has no basis. And it's not necessary? Of course it is, right now sports car racing is the only major road racing discipline without a world championship. It's good that that's acceptable to you but it's certainly not acceptable to most people. You can tell that there's a demand to be met by how the WEC announcement was met with excitement from teams, fans and manufacturers. If nobody needs a world championship then somebody should tell all those people... I really don't understand your point of view at all. You seem convinced that it will fail just because... There's absolutely nothing that suggests that this championship can't be a success. Two of the manufacturers involved are being active in the sport for years now, lots of new ones are lining up. Things couldn't be brighter right now but somehow you can't enjoy it because you`re afraid *something* will happen... it's paranoia if you ask me. What exactly would have been the right thing to do exactly? I can't recall you explaining that once apart from the "It should be LMP1 only" idea...which is horrible to be honest. The last thing this championship needs is to start half-assed. |
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3 Jan 2012, 02:58 (Ref:3006617) | #1341 | ||
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As for the WEC, it may provide for the best Le Mans-style prototype racing in 2012. That's not really saying much though, is it? The hybrid stuff is certainly a storyline. I have to consider all the factors though and I'm not sure if the WEC, ALMS, and ELMS provide enough positives for me to want to continue following the sport at a high level. We'll see. I'm undecided at the moment. Each series has their own set of problems. Some are independent problems, some are interlinked. There's still time for this to change, but at the moment it's looking like the WEC is going to be a mostly prototype series whether it wants to be or not. Regardless, the P1s are going to get all the attention. |
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3 Jan 2012, 04:11 (Ref:3006621) | #1342 | |
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This isn't about the ALMS, it's about having a global platform befiting the sport, one it had from 1953-1992, and one it needs today in order to retain manufactuers, sponsors and improve it's media profile.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_S...p#1953_to_1961 Sportscar racing's greatest era's were prior to 1998, we've come close since, but there hasn't been the platform to sustain and grow the sport further. NA is one piece of the puzzle, but equal partners with Asia and emerging markets, Europe also needs to adapt with the ELMS taking up a new role and fewer WEC rounds than we're accustomed to. |
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3 Jan 2012, 08:05 (Ref:3006632) | #1343 | |||
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Ninety pages in, over 1300 posts, and the WEC initial season is yet to get underway. |
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Go the mighty Flying Lizards "A good way to gauge the strength of your argument is to weight the quality of the rebuttals. Strong arguments have low quality rebuttals." David Heinemeier Hansson |
3 Jan 2012, 08:44 (Ref:3006640) | #1344 | |
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To reflect on some of the recent post. As much as I want to enjoy the WEC for the near future its still quite scary to imagine what happens next. John Dagy's had a great little online chat session yesterday and he said Peugeot was scaling back its sportscar programme next year. (Now there developing a S2000 car too). I read from Sam Collins site that (rumour) R18 is the last of the line from Audi? Who knows, just a rumour. As much as i dont want to think about it. WEC has made the game alot more expensive. The Arrival of Toyota is certainly going to make cost rise as they will probably spend as much as any other manufacturer.
I can almost taste it. It feels as though the R18 and the 908 are the last we will see from Audi and Peugeot. They may run the cars for the next 4-5 years but then what? Audi has built so an absurd number of cars(R10,R15,R15+,R15++,R18,R18(2012?) within a short time span relatively speaking. It's really suspicious. Dagy's chatted that Peugeot (parent company) cut 10% of its workforce. And then there the Euro devaluing. I dont really know what to make of this. I wish that Motorsports teams had endless budgets. |
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3 Jan 2012, 09:32 (Ref:3006652) | #1345 | |||
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It would be nice, but you can't follow this kind of racing and not expect to ride the rollercoaster of highs and lows. It's just the way things go. You can only hope that the rollercoster car does not go too fast and derail itself from the track and crash into the Ali Baba ride. |
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3 Jan 2012, 10:05 (Ref:3006663) | #1346 | ||
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The financial crisis in Europe is particularly bad for Peugeot. For Audi the weak euro may even be positive because they export a lot (China and US). |
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3 Jan 2012, 14:18 (Ref:3006742) | #1347 | ||
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The ALMS build the profile of Le Mans? Where? In the US maybe! In Europe the series was barely visible and had little effect on the promotion of Le Mans. I still have to hear anything about the horrible management errors that are setting this series up to fail etc. In the end, we it always goes back to the Bahrain/PLM issue, that's the reason you people despise the WEC because you apparently feel snubbed by it. Which, in my book, isn't really a basis for a sensible discussion. Like I said, Germany doesn't have a WEC round either but that's no reason for me to not want this series to be a success. |
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3 Jan 2012, 14:42 (Ref:3006762) | #1348 | ||
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From my POV, WEC will have less than 10 P1s this year. Still split in 2 sub-classes. I can only think of 5 certain full-season entries. Looks very 1992 to me.
The difference is that the lower classes are "healthy" this time. Lots of cars... very few pro teams who are there to win (instead of pleasing rich amateurs). They could race in historics, but they must prefer the "competition" found in modern racing and the glory that comes with it. In the end, it's about ego more than about sport. Keep adding sub-classes/sub-championships and more egos will be pleased. |
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3 Jan 2012, 18:39 (Ref:3006840) | #1349 | |||||
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emerging markets it's hoped will make up the shortfall and more, it's why all the major series have scheduled events in these places and it becomes clear why Peugeot wasn't interested racing in the likes of Spain or Portugal with the LMS. Quote:
But sub classes shouldn't be dismissed, in the case of the GTE field that's a production option for manufactuers, something the Group C WSC never established, the P2 field is a great class in itself, but also development base for teams who can step upto P1, and constructors to sell their chassis/engines. The last point is Group C never benefited from a sportscar scene spanning club, national and regional racing. |
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3 Jan 2012, 19:21 (Ref:3006855) | #1350 | |||
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Oh and Nissan and Honda had projects on track for 1993. We know where that ended up. Porsche is coming back, but that wouldn't be the first time they would line up wins with little real opposition and help from their ACO friends in the rulebook department. Remember, we're fans of RACING. |
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