[Official] Bahrain Grand Prix 2023: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 1 of 23

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Mr Horner would have you believe it is because the Aston is a copy of last year's Red Bull.......

First there was the Pink Mercedes and now the Green Red Bull.

[chillibowl]

even though this was a runaway win from the onset, i have to commend race control for resisting the entertainment urge and correctly using the VSC after Leclerc's car died. add to that their stricter enforcement of track limits and while Ocon's issues were amusing failure to start correctly lined up and time penalties are rules which have to be respected.

i have to say, from what i could tell anyways, this was a really well officiated race! kudos!

[AndreasDavour]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Yes, I echo that. I was actually rather depressed by the extent of the RBR dominance. Yes, the others may catch up to a degree but you can't help feeling that RBR and Max will have the titles pretty much in the bag by the time they do.

Alonso - well he was just a breath of fresh air. It never ceases to amaze me how a car that can be languishing in the lower midfield at the end of one season can be so improved at the start of the next. And it wasn't just Fernando, Lance did a more than decent job in the circumstances too. But Fernando was the standout, looking really racy and his immense enjoyment at being back at the pointy end was a sheer pleasure to witness.

I feel sorry for McLaren and particularly Lando. After dragging themselves out of the doldrums after so many years of poor performances, this season looks as though it'll be even worse than the last. How much longer can Lando remain there with his stock falling like this?

I spent quite a long time making comparisons in my head between the Astons and the Mercs. I'm not talking in technical terms as I make no excuses for maintaining a substantially ignorant stance when it comes to the technical stuff, but the Aston now looks so right, whereas the Merc just looks sooooo wrong. If I was a Merc corporate partner I'd be asking serious questions about why they've switched back to a really drab black livery which from an aesthetic point of view merely accentuates just how 'wrong' the car looks. And a few blobs of neon green and yellow do it no favours at all.

Yeah there's a lot wrong at McLaren now. They have built a extremely finicky car two years in a row. Rosberg's question to Norris on the grid was illuminating. If the car is a bit slow and have a very thin margin for when it can deliver, you are designing it wrong.


I'm still a McLaren fan, but I'm afraid of this year. I think this is when they lost Norris to another team. I just hope he realize he will never be allowed to be better than two if he signs with Team Max.

[steve_r]

It's early days yet. McLaren are mid pack, which is more or less where they have been for a while. They could still be 4th best team this year.

[AndreasDavour]

I find that unlikely, but I'd love to be wrong.



But, what I think is the damning fact is they have started on the wrong foot two years in a row. You can't do that if you want to move forward. I don't think they can afford to just be mid-pack. If others move forward they will slide backward.



The big question for Norris, and the long term expectations are what happens after 2026. I for one expect Audi to come in like a major force. If they slide backward more they are no longer 4th best.



Norris did have some speed in between his frequent stops, and I think the fact they could keep trundle around gathering data was quite useful when Piastri went soo early. We'll see I guess. But, I expect most of the cheers from me will be because of Fernando Alonso.

[Richard C]

I don't know if it is McLaren post race spin or not. But I think I saw some comments from Lando that he felt that race pace was not bad. That the problem with them having to pit every 10 laps to recharge the pneumatic system didn't allow a more realistic finishing position.

Richard

[AndreasDavour]

I think Lando might speak his genuine feeling, that the car have some decent pace. But, if it's hard to unlock it doesn't matter. I think the truth of the matter will be clearer in the next race. If Piastri can extract some decent pace, then the car is not a total dog.

[billy bleach]

Woof woof is my bet

[AndreasDavour]

Interestingly enough, Mercedes feel their car is in need of a total rethink, and they at least had two drivers in the top ten. Oh the perspective a recent run of championships provide...

[HDTVKSS]

With Merc, i wonder if they have priced themselves into inefficiency with their staff.

When RBPT was looking to poach staff, Merc basically (allegedly) doubled the wages of their key employees and put them out of reach. Hence, there doesnt seem to be a lot of movement from Brackley (Vowels being the obvious exception) where you see RBR staff ending up through the grid most notably at AM.

So - its possible that Merc have engineered their own issue here by locking up their staff and not being able to bring others in due to cost caps etc.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I don't know if it is McLaren post race spin or not. But I think I saw some comments from Lando that he felt that race pace was not bad. That the problem with them having to pit every 10 laps to recharge the pneumatic system didn't allow a more realistic finishing position.

Richard

Piastri had better pace than his grid position indicated.He had just passed Hulkenberg for 15th when his steering wheel/electrics went walkabout.
He had reason to regret the mistake he made in Sector 1 of his qualifying lap after he was quicker than Norris in the qualifying simulation in P3.

[Richard C]

I am counting on McLaren (really Piastri) to do better. Otherwise they are going to screw my Fantasy F1 team!

Richard

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by AndreasDavour

I find that unlikely, but I'd love to be wrong.



But, what I think is the damning fact is they have started on the wrong foot two years in a row. You can't do that if you want to move forward. I don't think they can afford to just be mid-pack. If others move forward they will slide backward.



The big question for Norris, and the long term expectations are what happens after 2026. I for one expect Audi to come in like a major force. If they slide backward more they are no longer 4th best.



Norris did have some speed in between his frequent stops, and I think the fact they could keep trundle around gathering data was quite useful when Piastri went soo early. We'll see I guess. But, I expect most of the cheers from me will be because of Fernando Alonso.

Audi has already picked up Sauber pace.
With Seidl on board he is already starting to build the engineering team and facilitate areas of weakness and where the development should take place.
By the time the next era comes around he will have the right people in the right places and the team will be podium visitors much more regularly than they are now. You can almost guarantee a dozen top four and five places to Sauber in 2024, some of them on the podium.

All is not lost with McLaren. Bruce must be turning in his grave but last weekend was hopefully an outlier, not to be repeated.
The car is much quicker than those results, but it is clear that some detail work in preparation was missing because that shouldn't be happening.

[AndreasDavour]

car some years back.

It's way harder to succeed in F1 than many expect, so I don't want to overstate things, but yes I wonder if the team Seidl is building now will be the next juggernaut that will win everything. Audi was something to behold in sportscars before dieselgate happened.

[S griffin]

This could be the start of a new era. As I’ve said still early days. Alfa are still developing. We’ll see if Audi can make a difference. Especially as they won’t have much practice should they still enter. But it could be a long year for the team

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by AndreasDavour

car some years back.

It's way harder to succeed in F1 than many expect, so I don't want to overstate things, but yes I wonder if the team Seidl is building now will be the next juggernaut that will win everything. Audi was something to behold in sportscars before dieselgate happened.

Most of the Audi Le Mans wins were against cars that weren’t technically on the same level.Telling that once Porsche entered LMP1 Audi never won Le Mans again.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Most of the Audi Le Mans wins were against cars that weren’t technically on the same level.Telling that once Porsche entered LMP1 Audi never won Le Mans again.

Sorry, this isn't true and it's a little disingenuous in that it ignores Toyota and Peugeot, who regularly had faster cars than Audi.

Audi won Le Mans in 2014. Porsche were 30 laps down.

Audi raced without 'serious' competition from 2000-2006.

2007-2016 they had full factory competition to beat. In those years they won 9 times and lost 3.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Sorry, this isn't true and it's a little disingenuous in that it ignores Toyota and Peugeot, who regularly had faster cars than Audi.

Audi won Le Mans in 2014. Porsche were 30 laps down.

Audi raced without 'serious' competition from 2000-2006.

2007-2016 they had full factory competition to beat. In those years they won 9 times and lost 3.

Toyota deserves to be ignored. Peugeot less so.

[Richard C]

I don't think I have seen it mentioned, but I feel the cars are really able to race closely with each other. Such as Alonso following very closely through multiple corners. I can't help but to think the new aero regulations are working.

Richard

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I don't think I have seen it mentioned, but I feel the cars are really able to race closely with each other. Such as Alonso following very closely through multiple corners. I can't help but to think the new aero regulations are working.

Richard

Which again proves that we don't need DRS anymore.

BTW, is anyone else having trouble distinguishing between the Haas and Alpha Tauri from a distance?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I don't think I have seen it mentioned, but I feel the cars are really able to race closely with each other. Such as Alonso following very closely through multiple corners. I can't help but to think the new aero regulations are working.

Richard

They are definitely better, yes, but even he admitted he was able to get close and pass Lewis and Sainz more easily thanks to fresher tyres?

[chillibowl]

DRS, tire life, how much the wick was turned up on their engine (different strategies that play out across an entire season), relative decrease between team budgets, and of course the new aero rule set have all contributed to a closer field imo.

i havent looked deep at any numbers but i suspect no one is anywhere near close to running afoul of 107% rule anymore?

the amount of coordination to get the grid to this point took a small miracle imo, and at the risk of going off topic, this may be my biggest reason against expansion.

of course i would be happier if another team had managed to get closer to RB but aside from that every current team, for the first time as long as i can remember, seems to have a very positive future ahead of them.

every team showed up at the test ready to go, no one showing up at the first race with last years car, no one in danger of the 107% rule, no one worried about insolvency.

early still but for me the new regs all seem to be working!

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

DRS, tire life, how much the wick was turned up on their engine (different strategies that play out across an entire season), relative decrease between team budgets, and of course the new aero rule set have all contributed to a closer field imo.

Yes. I think it is all of it. I personally am not ready to ditch DRS until we have more data. Right now we are just seeing the aggregate effects of all of it.

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i havent looked deep at any numbers but i suspect no one is anywhere near close to running afoul of 107% rule anymore?

For sure. If you look at Q1, the slowest time was 101.3%. If you combine Q1, 2 and 3 and look at fastest vs. slowest, it was 102.8%.

I don't know how that compares to last year. But I think over the weekend they were calling out how deep in the field was covered by one second at times. Q1 was all within a second.

Richard

[chillibowl]

yeah i also dont know about other seasons, but 101.3% in the first competitive session of the season is amazing!

[AndreasDavour]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Most of the Audi Le Mans wins were against cars that weren’t technically on the same level.Telling that once Porsche entered LMP1 Audi never won Le Mans again.

Like Akrapovic said, this just isn't true.