Intercontinental GT Challenge

[Racing Harz]

Please stop talk this nonsense. More cars and more international teams then last year.
https://www.bathurst12hour.com.au/ne...list-confirmed



Confirmed Entry List:
https://www.bathurst12hour.com.au/dr...and-teams/2024

[Alan52]

Manthey and Craft Bamboo return from last year which is good.
Still a long way behind 2015-2020.

[GreenMachine]

Yeah, lot of those don't have drivers, makes them a bit doubtful for me.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

Yeah, lot of those don't have drivers, makes them a bit doubtful for me.

That’s not unusual.I think they will all materialise.
Driver announcements by the end of next week apparently.

[bludvl_x19]

It's a strange timing for the 12hrs too; its usually this weekend (straight after Daytona)
Much will be made of the fact it was to fit into the international calendar, when it was just so Supercars could hold their first round of the year there.

[GT3_Fan]

That Bathurst 12 hour entry list is not impressive. Just a bunch of the german manufacturers. This race has really lost its excitement and prestige after thriving in the 2010s. It is not even the week after Daytona anymore.

[PhilipR]

Originally Posted by GT3_Fan

That Bathurst 12 hour entry list is not impressive. Just a bunch of the german manufacturers. This race has really lost its excitement and prestige after thriving in the 2010s. It is not even the week after Daytona anymore.

If it was the week after Daytona it would have clashed with the Asian Le Mans series, meaning some drivers might not have been available for Bathurst or vice versa

I think the entry list is decent, some good pro entries! The lack of non German manufacturers is more on the teams of the other cars that do not want to join

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by GT3_Fan

That Bathurst 12 hour entry list is not impressive. Just a bunch of the german manufacturers. This race has really lost its excitement and prestige after thriving in the 2010s. It is not even the week after Daytona anymore.

Doesn't this describe the vast majority of international GT3 races? I think it's a bit early to write off Bathurst, while it is clearly not at the heady heights of a few years ago, this is a good field.

[Alan52]

The decision to move from the week after Daytona was made after consultation with international teams and drivers.Certainly makes it easier as that commute was brutal.
The Asian Le Mans series was also a factor.
It has nothing to do with Round 1 of the Supercar Championship.The 12 Hour date was announced when Supercars were going to start in Newcastle 2 weeks after the 12 Hour.
A good thing it is not on this weekend.I live on the other side of the Blue Mountains from Bathurst and it is forecast to be 41 degrees on Sunday.

[GT3_Fan]

With WEC GT3 in existence now, pro am ranks could dip. Akka ASP is gone from SRO probably. Still I look forward to the shake up in GT3 racing in Europe/ICGT overall. The reduced Audi presence along with the new cars from Aston, Chevy, and Ford will perhaps increase the diversity of the grids in various series and races now. Post-Bathurst of course....he he!

[chunterer]

GTWCE/Sprint will be absolutely fine across all levels.

[airbusA346]

HubAuto have withdrawn their Porsche from Bathurst due to shipping delays.

https://sportscar365.com/sro/igtc/hu...rst-12h-entry/


"The team’s absence has been offset by the late addition of a fourth car in the GT4 category, a Ginetta G55 GT4 entered by Nineteen Corporation for Paul Buccini, Owen Hizzey, Colin White and Aaron Zerefos."

Hmmm... not really sure that makes up for loosing a full pro front running potential race winning entry.

[v8supes]

Shame, would have been great to have that driver line up in the race.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by airbusA346

HubAuto have withdrawn their Porsche from Bathurst due to shipping delays.

https://sportscar365.com/sro/igtc/hu...rst-12h-entry/


"The team’s absence has been offset by the late addition of a fourth car in the GT4 category, a Ginetta G55 GT4 entered by Nineteen Corporation for Paul Buccini, Owen Hizzey, Colin White and Aaron Zerefos."

Hmmm... not really sure that makes up for loosing a full pro front running potential race winning entry.

Disappointing that the entry is out.Disappointing that this puts Estre out of the race.
Would have loved him to be with Vanthoor and Campbell in the Manthey Pro entry.As a matter of fact when he was announced for Hub Auto I took it as a sign that Manthey weren’t going to enter.
Field now very close in numbers and quality to last years race.
Also I really dislike Am drivers running in the Pro class so that they only have to do 40 minutes driving across the 12 hours.3 cars-Habul and the 2 MPC Audis- are doing this.A very desperate way to get your name listed as a winning driver and it’s hard to see how you could feel much satisfaction in your days effort doing this.Habul,Talbot snd Schumacher -the 40 minute heroes.

[airbusA346]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Disappointing that the entry is out.Disappointing that this puts Estre out of the race.
Would have loved him to be with Vanthoor and Campbell in the Manthey Pro entry.As a matter of fact when he was announced for Hub Auto I took it as a sign that Manthey weren’t going to enter.
Field now very close in numbers and quality to last years race.
Also I really dislike Am drivers running in the Pro class so that they only have to do 40 minutes driving across the 12 hours.3 cars-Habul and the 2 MPC Audis- are doing this.A very desperate way to get your name listed as a winning driver and it’s hard to see how you could feel much satisfaction in your days effort doing this.Habul,Talbot snd Schumacher -the 40 minute heroes.

Didn't know about that. Surprised the SRO haven't closed that loop hole.

[justracing]

Will the Bathurst 12 hour be shown on youtube please?

[deggis]

Originally Posted by justracing

Will the Bathurst 12 hour be shown on youtube please?

https://www.bathurst12hour.com.au/streams-tv

... while global fans will be able to watch on You Tube via SRO’s ‘GT World’ platform and other international streaming partners

https://www.intercontinentalgtchallenge.com/watch-live
And most likely on:
https://youtube.com/@B12HR/streams
https://youtube.com/@GTWorld/streams

[justracing]

Originally Posted by deggis

https://www.bathurst12hour.com.au/streams-tv

https://www.intercontinentalgtchallenge.com/watch-live
And most likely on:
https://youtube.com/@B12HR/streams
https://youtube.com/@GTWorld/streams

Thanks for that

[Badlands99]

Also I really dislike Am drivers running in the Pro class so that they only have to do 40 minutes driving across the 12 hours.3 cars-Habul and the 2 MPC Audis- are doing this.A very desperate way to get your name listed as a winning driver and it’s hard to see how you could feel much satisfaction in your days effort doing this.Habul,Talbot snd Schumacher -the 40 minute heroes.[/QUOTE]

Think that this is just a tad harsh on Kenny Habul.
AFAIK, He has pretty much funded the team himself and looking back to the Spa 24 Hrs last year, he funded the replacement Merc after his big crash in qualifying so that his co drivers could still compete.

Fair play to him ........

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by Badlands99

Also I really dislike Am drivers running in the Pro class so that they only have to do 40 minutes driving across the 12 hours.3 cars-Habul and the 2 MPC Audis- are doing this.A very desperate way to get your name listed as a winning driver and it’s hard to see how you could feel much satisfaction in your days effort doing this.Habul,Talbot snd Schumacher -the 40 minute heroes.

Think that this is just a tad harsh on Kenny Habul.
AFAIK, He has pretty much funded the team himself and looking back to the Spa 24 Hrs last year, he funded the replacement Merc after his big crash in qualifying so that his co drivers could still compete.

Fair play to him ........[/QUOTE]
Last year he drove just over an hour.A fair bit of that was under safety car.He finished his driving with over 9 hours to go in the race.He then got to stand on the podium and get his name listed as a race winning driver.
What sort of achievement is that?About the same as being a non driving entrant.
This has nothing to do with Spa accident or what a good bloke Kenny might be.This is about a ludicrous loophole in the rules that the organisers seem uninterested in fixing.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Last year he drove just over an hour.A fair bit of that was under safety car.He finished his driving with over 9 hours to go in the race.He then got to stand on the podium and get his name listed as a race winning driver.
What sort of achievement is that?About the same as being a non driving entrant.
This has nothing to do with Spa accident or what a good bloke Kenny might be.This is about a ludicrous loophole in the rules that the organisers seem uninterested in fixing.

Categorically false. He drove the car; he was part of the winning team. That he did so mostly under the safety car does not matter. Had a professional driver taken his place, would that driver have their part in the victory invalidated because they drove mostly during the safety car?

The "loophole" (for want of a better term) exists in almost all forms of endurance racing, and there is nothing wrong with teams being able to take advantage of it if the situation falls in their favour. If they are doing so, it is only because they were already at a relative disadvantage to teams that have the resources to hire a full professional driver crew.

We're veering dangerously close to no amateurs allowed territory here. That's a point of view anyone can have, but it will lead to smaller, and lower-quality, grids.

Originally Posted by airbusA346

Didn't know about that. Surprised the SRO haven't closed that loop hole.

Why would they deny a chance for a team to win the race overall? There's enough sub-classes in SRO as-is, we don't need more participation trophies for any car without a full professional driver crew.

I know SRO run screaming at the mere thought of unconventional strategies, but I think even they can see that this is a carrot that is worth keeping.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Categorically false. He drove the car; he was part of the winning team. That he did so mostly under the safety car does not matter. Had a professional driver taken his place, would that driver have their part in the victory invalidated because they drove mostly during the safety car?

The "loophole" (for want of a better term) exists in almost all forms of endurance racing, and there is nothing wrong with teams being able to take advantage of it if the situation falls in their favour. If they are doing so, it is only because they were already at a relative disadvantage to teams that have the resources to hire a full professional driver crew.

We're veering dangerously close to no amateurs allowed territory here. That's a point of view anyone can have, but it will lead to smaller, and lower-quality, grids.



Why would they deny a chance for a team to win the race overall? There's enough sub-classes in SRO as-is, we don't need more participation trophies for any car without a full professional driver crew.

I know SRO run screaming at the mere thought of unconventional strategies, but I think even they can see that this is a carrot that is worth keeping.

1-If a professional driver was in the car instead of Kenny he would have driven close to a third of race length.
2-GT racing is based on Am participation.That is why they have Pro/Am and Am/Am classes.The Am drivers have minimum driving times which is the best way to encourage AMS to think it is worthwhile to fund and compete.Do you really think if it becomes the norm for Am drivers to enter Pro and do 40 minutes in 12 Hours that is going to encourage them.Amateurs are allowed and encouraged.This is just an undeserving way of getting credit where credit isn’t due.
3-All 3 of the 40 minute heroes have competed in the race as Ams for years.Closing the loophole would make no difference as to whether they compete.They would just get the result that their driving ability deserves.

[airbusA346]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Categorically false. He drove the car; he was part of the winning team. That he did so mostly under the safety car does not matter. Had a professional driver taken his place, would that driver have their part in the victory invalidated because they drove mostly during the safety car?

The "loophole" (for want of a better term) exists in almost all forms of endurance racing, and there is nothing wrong with teams being able to take advantage of it if the situation falls in their favour. If they are doing so, it is only because they were already at a relative disadvantage to teams that have the resources to hire a full professional driver crew.

We're veering dangerously close to no amateurs allowed territory here. That's a point of view anyone can have, but it will lead to smaller, and lower-quality, grids.



Why would they deny a chance for a team to win the race overall? There's enough sub-classes in SRO as-is, we don't need more participation trophies for any car without a full professional driver crew.

I know SRO run screaming at the mere thought of unconventional strategies, but I think even they can see that this is a carrot that is worth keeping.

You've missed the point. I'm not saying they shouldn't allow the Am's to run in the Pro class. I am saying they should have to have a longer minimum driving time.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Alan52

2-GT racing is based on Am participation.That is why they have Pro/Am and Am/Am classes.The Am drivers have minimum driving times which is the best way to encourage AMS to think it is worthwhile to fund and compete. Amateurs are allowed and encouraged.

You mean the Pro/Am and Am/Am classes that have neatly shuffled any entries without all-professional drivers out of the limelight.

Encouraged, as long as the have no desire at all to win outright and they're happy with their special little participation trophy. Allowed, as long as they know their place and jump out of the way while the "big boys" race for real.

There's some serious gatekeeping going on here.

Originally Posted by Alan52

This is just an undeserving way of getting credit where credit isn’t due.

They would just get the result that their driving ability deserves.

No, it isn't; until the driver time regulations change, they are as deserving as any other winning entry. If you want driver talent to be the deciding factor (which is a valid opinion), single-seaters or spec series are the way to go.

Originally Posted by Alan52

Do you really think if it becomes the norm for Am drivers to enter Pro and do 40 minutes in 12 Hours that is going to encourage them.

3-All 3 of the 40 minute heroes have competed in the race as Ams for years.Closing the loophole would make no difference as to whether they compete.

According to yourself, the answer is yes, as evidenced by three drivers already competing for years with the current loophole in place.

Originally Posted by airbusA346

You've missed the point. I'm not saying they shouldn't allow the Am's to run in the Pro class. I am saying they should have to have a longer minimum driving time.

And if the safety car period covers the longer minimum driving time, the issue remains the same, doesn't it? Especially at Bathurst, where the chance of a safety car is relatively high and recent races have seen multiple hours (in aggregate) run under safety car. We'll have "90-minute heroes" instead, or whatever the limit becomes.

If the driving times are raised, so be it - the gentleman drivers know what they are signing up for when they want to compete for overall victories. But I don't see it quelling the complaint about amateurs not "deserving" their honours, unless the driving time became a significant fraction of the race.

[Alan52]

1-During the racing part of his 30 laps last year “jumping out of the way” is exactly what Kenny did.He wasn’t racing at the level of the contenders.
2-They run all Pro classes so that driving talent is a deciding factor.It was for the winning car last year except that one of the winning drivers lapped seconds off the pace and left his co drivers with 11 hours to make up for him.
3-I don’t think anyone was aware of the loophole until last year.It certainly hadn’t been actively considered.
3-Ams should have to do their 3 hour driving requirement regardless of what class they are competing in.That regulation just should be applied across all classes.
By the way this years race sees the introduction of a Virtual Safety Car for the first time.Personally I think they will still need full Safety Cars for nearly every incident between the Cutting and the Elbow.Last years race had very little Safety Car time.