2010 new teams = too many cars?

Canada ALMS fan · 23 Apr 2009, 16:58 (Ref:2447989)

Currently we have 10 teams, 3 teams have announced possible intent for 2010 (USGPE, Lola, ProDrive) simple math tells me we may have 26 cars vying for 24 spots on the grid. We will see a return of pre-qualifying or is someone leaving??? Bernie perhaps expanding the grid size? I don't know if all tracks have garage facilities for this many or have they dropped all the races at tracks with antiquated pit areas? Are the Lola & ProDrive projects related?

duke_toaster · 23 Apr 2009, 17:01 (Ref:2447992)

All tracks will have enough space if teams get given less pit boxes. Bear in mind that there are more than three that could be wanting to get in. The current limit is 24. However, that can be changed. One thing that I don't want is a return to pre-qualifying as that could be a bit of a problem for the teams that get DNPQs, as they would get no TV coverage on the major weekend sessions.

ECW Dan Selby · 23 Apr 2009, 18:10 (Ref:2448043)

Would it not be possible to air Pre-Qualifying if it were to happen?

We're talking a good 15 years ago since the last time this happened, and what with the red button additions over the past few years..?

Selby

Mr V · 23 Apr 2009, 20:48 (Ref:2448153)

I wonder about the existing teams and their thoughts on this. I'm sure i remember the grid being cut down to a maximum of 12 teams to make sure each teams value was kept up?

I'm all for as many cars on the grid as possible providing they are fast enough to compete.

I don't want to see cars at the back of the grid 4-5 seconds off the pace.

**Adam43** · 23 Apr 2009, 21:03 (Ref:2448164)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

Would it not be possible to air Pre-Qualifying if it were to happen?

You wouldn't need pre-qualifying, just qualifying!

Quote:

We're talking a good 15 years ago since the last time this happened, and what with the red button additions over the past few years..?

There was over 30 cars when they did this.

Whatever I don't think we'll have a problem with too many cars.

Down F0rce · 23 Apr 2009, 21:20 (Ref:2448174)

I don't think the amount of cars and pit boxes are the problem, more that teams just bring so much stuff with them and get much bigger garages compared to the pre-qualifying days. Cut down on both those counts and I'm sure 26 cars will be no problem.

Canada ALMS fan · 23 Apr 2009, 22:59 (Ref:2448226)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

You wouldn't need pre-qualifying, just qualifying!

After thinking about it, you are right. They could leave it as it now and with 26 cars eliminate the slowest 8 cars from each of the first 2 sessions.

White flag man · 23 Apr 2009, 23:12 (Ref:2448237)

Well with the loss of Renault, Toyota and Williams, I done think you'll have to worry.

Marbot · 23 Apr 2009, 23:48 (Ref:2448258)

Quote:

Originally Posted by White flag man

Well with the loss of Renault, Toyota and Williams, I done think you'll have to worry.

oooh! controversial! And not forgetting McLaren of course.

White flag man · 24 Apr 2009, 00:14 (Ref:2448268)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

oooh! controversial! And not forgetting McLaren of course.

Now Ron's gone, the sooner we forget about McLaren the better.

Burnsie · 24 Apr 2009, 00:59 (Ref:2448280)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

I don't want to see cars at the back of the grid 4-5 seconds off the pace.

Agreed, but hopefully with the budget-cap being introduced there will be more of a level playing field, and we won't see teams more than 2 seconds off the pace.

Chatters · 24 Apr 2009, 01:29 (Ref:2448294)

Quote:

Originally Posted by White flag man

Well with the loss of Renault, Toyota and Williams, I done think you'll have to worry.

Would Toyota really want to give up, when, after all these years they finally have a competitive car?

I can see them withdrawing as a team and just supplying engines to Williams (and Force India?)...

Canada ALMS fan · 24 Apr 2009, 03:08 (Ref:2448310)

I can't remember where I read it today but Bernie said he wants 13 teams next year, and there is talk he may be offering packages to help them. There have been rumours of approaches by as many as 6 new teams. Obivously they won't all happen and we may lose a team so if it is 13 teams Bernie wants, I suspect it will be 13 teams Bernie gets.

climb · 24 Apr 2009, 06:43 (Ref:2448354)

I think that some major will leave.

steve_r · 24 Apr 2009, 11:12 (Ref:2448545)

The fact that 3 new teams are seemingly very interested in joining ht eparty, surly indicates that cost cutting measures are seen as likely to succeed. In which case, I wonder why any current teams would pull out now, just when costs are apparently going down?

What is happening with Torro Rosso. I have even lost track of who owns that team now?

Burnsie · 24 Apr 2009, 11:22 (Ref:2448550)

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_r

What is happening with Torro Rosso. I have even lost track of who owns that team now?

It's still owned by Dietrich Mateschitz, who also owns the Red Bull team.

**chunterer** · 24 Apr 2009, 11:25 (Ref:2448555)

I'm almost of the opinion that a series can never have too many entrants?

Yes there will need to be a grid limit, i'm thinking 26 as we had a few years ago and certainly most venues are perfectly able to cater for that number, maybe with teams losing a garage space at the older venues if necessary.

I'd actually love to see grids of 30 cars, but at somewhere like Monaco that would obviously be a no-no!

Marbot · 24 Apr 2009, 13:48 (Ref:2448648)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

I'd actually love to see grids of 30 cars, but at somewhere like Monaco that would obviously be a no-no!

It would be very interesting though wouldn't it ?

Yannick · 24 Apr 2009, 14:09 (Ref:2448662)

26 cars on the grid was always OK. The pits of most racetracs run on these days should be large enough to allow for 30 entries even.
Good luck to all the new entries for their campaigns.

But please, no more pre-qualifying. Teams that don't pre-qualify just aren't sustainable in the long run. So the maximum number of entries should really be at 30 cars.

Lola · 24 Apr 2009, 15:52 (Ref:2448710)

Who cares if the pit allocation is one garage per car etc. Is it just me when I think of the amount of cars in the 80's was great. Even if some of them were complete dogs built from spaghetti in some Italian back street garage. They were interesting. Its what F1 needs to get rid of this sterile elitist environment where it is now.
It gave another angle to watch GP racing. Remember 1992 when Hill got that Brabham onto the grid at Silverstone? You will start watching both ends of the grid. It might dilute what we have now but with the proposed budget cap cant see it ever happening) it will be achievable.

Gingers4Justice · 24 Apr 2009, 17:23 (Ref:2448746)

Crikey, what a state Formula One has got into if 24 is 'too many' cars.

**Adam43** · 24 Apr 2009, 18:33 (Ref:2448775)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

After thinking about it, you are right. They could leave it as it now and with 26 cars eliminate the slowest 8 cars from each of the first 2 sessions.

Qualifying methods can change, but there is more than that. In 1989 there were 39 cars entered (I think the maximum). Prequalifying took the 'worse' cars over the allowed 26 starters and these prequalified to get get into qualifying proper. However 30 cars were allowed in qualifying, made up of the other 26 and four from pre-qualifying. These 30 then battled it out for 26 places.
I think 'worse' was bottom of the constructors, or newbie, over the last half a season - something like that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yannick

But please, no more pre-qualifying. Teams that don't pre-qualify just aren't sustainable in the long run. So the maximum number of entries should really be at 30 cars.

Well that will self-fulfil what you are saying so I have no problem with it!

Canada ALMS fan · 24 Apr 2009, 22:28 (Ref:2448914)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Qualifying methods can change, but there is more than that. In 1989 there were 39 cars entered (I think the maximum). Prequalifying took the 'worse' cars over the allowed 26 starters and these prequalified to get get into qualifying proper. However 30 cars were allowed in qualifying, made up of the other 26 and four from pre-qualifying. These 30 then battled it out for 26 places.
I think 'worse' was bottom of the constructors, or newbie, over the last half a season - something like that!Well that will self-fulfil what you are saying so I have no problem with it!

If we had 39 cars to watch I could live with watching pre-qualifying.

The reliability of some of the lesser entries used to add a wild card to the races, the cars now are so reliable we no longer have that sadly.

White flag man · 24 Apr 2009, 23:08 (Ref:2448939)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

I'm almost of the opinion that a series can never have too many entrants?

Yes there will need to be a grid limit, i'm thinking 26 as we had a few years ago and certainly most venues are perfectly able to cater for that number, maybe with teams losing a garage space at the older venues if necessary.

I'd actually love to see grids of 30 cars, but at somewhere like Monaco that would obviously be a no-no!

I'd love to see 30 cars and all the excitement, including pre qualifying, that goes with it, but in today's financial climate I don't think it is possible.
As for Monaco being a no-no, that would be another bonus. The Monaco GP is not a race, for it to be a race you have to be able to overtake!

**Bononi** · 24 Apr 2009, 23:56 (Ref:2448961)

Quote:

Originally Posted by climb

I think that some major will leave.

Yeah, that one !

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