Team The new teams development for 2010 so far, discuss here. - Page 5

ECW Dan Selby · 6 Nov 2009, 15:04 (Ref:2577052)

So we're now looking at 24 on the grid (including Sauber).

Selby

JHamilton · 6 Nov 2009, 16:17 (Ref:2577083)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaceFreak

Concerning USF1; Germany's Auto Motor und Sport estimated the chance that they will be ready to race in 2010 at "zero". They have done no crash testing yet. This procedure cannot be simulated on a supercomputer and needs to be accomplished before the official FIA tests begin.

I think it's looking less probable every day.

I will admit things are a little shady over there and my confidence not as high as earlier, BUT do any of the new teams have a rolling chassis yet? It seem the folks using Lotus' name are the farthest along... maybe.

OZ_HCR32 · 6 Nov 2009, 16:37 (Ref:2577101)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted bennett

I guess this is the 'RPM' segment mentioned previously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbrHk0EmQP0

The piece of tooling block on the 5 axis could be a section of the chassis pattern or it might be for a mock up.

The part they were machining looks like a rear hub

Ted bennett · 6 Nov 2009, 19:14 (Ref:2577221)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

The part they were machining looks like a rear hub

That would be my guess for the alloy component but it just seemed a bit beefy, however it was not finished so could end up looking much less beefy.
I didn't really want to hazzard a guess at such an early stage.

Rgms320 · 7 Nov 2009, 17:03 (Ref:2577703)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

My mistake, the wind tunnels are still operating at 24/7, but now can only use 60% size models with wind speeds not in excess of 50 metres per second.

What are the ramifications of the scaling and the limit? How does that stuff work?

Just thinking it out, 50 m/S works out to something like 186 kph. And it seems the 60% scaling would scale up the effective wind speed. (My logic is that, for a 60% model, a molecule of air would take the same time to move from the front of the model to the back as would a molecule of air moving over a full-size car at about 300 kph. That seems to be a useful test regime.)

But how about air pressure over the aerodynamic surfaces, and drag? Or, for that matter, Reynolds number? For the life of me, I can't work that out in my head.

I think I need to do some Googling.

Thanks in advance for any information you can provide, or pointing me in the right direction.

Tom

crmalcolm · 7 Nov 2009, 19:35 (Ref:2577772)

The Force India VJM02...

The Lotus design...

To my mind, it looks like the Force India designers had opted to go down the high nose route for desing, so as a result the wing hangs a long way below.

Lotus have also opted to go for a high nose, and so the design will undoubtedly look similar.

If working to the same rules, designs will show some similarity - are FI saying that no-one can use a high nose design?

Looking for differences, I would say the Force India nose is considerably wider than the Lotus design. Should Force India complain about Red Bull's wide nose copying their design?

old man · 9 Nov 2009, 10:36 (Ref:2578805)

Not having much knowledge of and no actual experience in CFD I asked a
question on the Technology forum : http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118580

It seems to me that the new teams must struggle unless the CFD modelling that their engineers use has recent empirical data but with so much relience on CFD we can expect great similarities in design.

We are likely to have a good season of racing in 2010 with many potential winners and the added interest will be in which of the new teams can get into the points.

For 2011 perhaps tyre comptetition should be introduced again?

Marbot · 9 Nov 2009, 10:48 (Ref:2578814)

Quote:

Originally Posted by old man

For 2011 perhaps tyre comptetition should be introduced again?

Will this "tyre competition" involve the team that can come up with the most money getting the tyres that best suit its car ?

We've been there before, it wasn't pretty, and only served the purpose of proving that one F1 tyre can be made to go faster than another if you are prepared to throw vast sums of money at it.

And of course the other thing is, that as the cars go faster (which they inevitably will in a tyre war) then the rules will need to be changed more often in order to slow the cars down, and that isn't what FOTA the FIA or any of the teams want.

ECW Dan Selby · 9 Nov 2009, 13:21 (Ref:2578890)

Plus, as mentioned previously, it's an easy excuse. I think people forget just about irritating press conferences/interviews became, as they were COMPLETELY tyre based. "Well, we know the Michelin's are quicker this weekend" etc. It turns in to a best of the rest scenario, which we don't want.

Selby

old man · 9 Nov 2009, 15:34 (Ref:2578988)

Yes OK, so you two guys - should we have control tyres for all racing? Cut out that variable everywhere?

ECW Dan Selby · 9 Nov 2009, 15:49 (Ref:2578992)

I still like the variation on the tyre types, but there should certainly be an option tyre to go through the whole race, only if the tyre is managed properly! It'd make for some excellent gambles for someone from the back of the grid.

Selby

Tim the Grey · 9 Nov 2009, 15:57 (Ref:2578998)

There should be the option to run the whole way without changing tyres. Start on the same compound as used in Quali.
Simples.

dwf1 · 10 Nov 2009, 12:33 (Ref:2579469)

The two cars look quite the same because the designer was the same. He will run the rules the same way because look how Force India moved forward. Lotus would love that progress

Marbot · 10 Nov 2009, 16:20 (Ref:2579607)

Cosworth are confident that all four new teams will be on the grid next season.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80119

kartracer41 · 10 Nov 2009, 16:33 (Ref:2579610)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Cosworth are confident that all four new teams will be on the grid next season.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80119

That should be a good indicator.

courageous · 10 Nov 2009, 18:44 (Ref:2579672)

random though for today - wonder if Toyota would be willing to sell the IPR for their 2010 car to one of the new teams?

If I were running USF1 (and was not an elaborate hoaxer), that's what I would be looking at.

Richard C · 10 Nov 2009, 19:16 (Ref:2579688)

Podcast interview with Peter Windsor (USF1)...

http://www.formula1blog.com/2009/11/...peter-windsor/

Interview runs over 40 minutes and covers a good bit of topics including the recent press reports (crash testing) and negative rumors about the status of USF1, progress on their car, BMW, Toyota, drivers (not much hope for US driver in 2010, but they look to have some type of driver program for US drivers), etc.

They clearly still have a long hard road to make the grid in 2010, but overall it sounds more positive than recent press reports and rumors.

Richard C · 10 Nov 2009, 19:23 (Ref:2579691)

Quote:

Originally Posted by courageous

random though for today - wonder if Toyota would be willing to sell the IPR for their 2010 car to one of the new teams?

If I were running USF1 (and was not an elaborate hoaxer), that's what I would be looking at.

I would think there is some value in the IPR for a defunct team. But I also think the major issues with the new teams is not getting a design in place, but rather building the team (car, staff, etc.). Also, assuming you could buy a good design from someone, I think you would not just need the design, but also need to know "why" it works. Especially when it comes to developing the car going forward. There is no substitute for experience. So in short even if any of the new teams was gifted a good car, they are going to struggle. If I struggle (and learn), I would rather do it with my own design.

JagtechOhio · 10 Nov 2009, 19:25 (Ref:2579692)

Marbot ;} "time machine"

Marbot · 10 Nov 2009, 19:46 (Ref:2579703)

Quote:

Originally Posted by courageous

If I were running USF1 (and was not an elaborate hoaxer), that's what I would be looking at.

Building consistently poor/unpredictable chassis is one of the reasons why Toyota are leaving.

Wims · 10 Nov 2009, 19:56 (Ref:2579708)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Building consistently poor/unpredictable chassis is one of the reasons why Toyota are leaving.

I dunno about that, it seemed to be pretty damn good this season, with proper drivers like Kimi, Alonso or Hamilton I'm sure Toyota would have clocked up more points than Ferrari this season

Marbot · 10 Nov 2009, 20:07 (Ref:2579713)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wim Sjøholm

I dunno about that, it seemed to be pretty damn good this season, with proper drivers like Kimi, Alonso or Hamilton I'm sure Toyota would have clocked up more points than Ferrari this season

Front of the grid in Bahrain, back of the grid in Monaco. Why would you want to buy someone elses problems?

jab · 10 Nov 2009, 22:43 (Ref:2579801)

Apparently the subject of them selling the designs was in Le Parisien today, funnily enough

**ghinzani** · 11 Nov 2009, 05:04 (Ref:2579927)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Podcast interview with Peter Windsor (USF1)...

http://www.formula1blog.com/2009/11/...peter-windsor/

Interview runs over 40 minutes and covers a good bit of topics including the recent press reports (crash testing) and negative rumors about the status of USF1, progress on their car, BMW, Toyota, drivers (not much hope for US driver in 2010, but they look to have some type of driver program for US drivers), etc.

They clearly still have a long hard road to make the grid in 2010, but overall it sounds more positive than recent press reports and rumors.

Saw this as well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMh3qu5GtZA

jab · 11 Nov 2009, 15:31 (Ref:2580166)

Apparently there's now talk that that useless nit Pizzonia's in the running at Manorvirgin. Must be bringing money

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