Another FF Festival thread (moved from the "Who's Going" thread from Trackside)

[ascarmarshal]

It is the lack of a testing week that shows that the Festival is dead and buried in all but name. There used to be testing from the Monday before the Festival until Friday lunchtime. This year there is only two days of testing. This all due to the lack enterants which I blame the BRSCC for.

[Ian Sowman]

There is now a much better entry in both classes than we had last year.

The BRSCC can't really be blamed for the dearth of cars in Zetec Formula Ford.

The Kent entry may have been higher with more advance planning - but probably not significantly.

Most FF1600 competitors do NOT want to spend a week testing.

So there isn't really a need for a full week of testing, and that is not particularly the fault of BRSCC.

[ascarmarshal]

The entries fell when the BRSCC downgraded the meeting from International to National a few years ago. Three or four years ago we had enough entries for a full weeks testing with the FF1600s having their first test session on Thursday. Most of the people I work with blame the BRSCC for the demise of the Festival ( that number includes FFord drivers).

[Ian Sowman]

I am not absolving the BRSCC of blame completely.

However, given a reduced competitor pool in Zetec clearly the entry levels for the Festival will decline.

Other factors impact on the Kent entry. Increasingly FF1600 is becoming a regional championship and many competitors do not want to travel the distance to compete at Brands. Another major factor is the alternative events available to the competitor, such as the Walter Hayes Trophy. Many drivers will do one event or the other.

To lay blame solely at the door of BRSCC would be very wrong, and I feel that in the last fortnight the BRSCC have made a number of positive steps to enhance the Festival. It never will be the event it was, but that is evolution for you I'm afraid.

[Snapper Baz]

I think the BRSCC have learnt from this few months that next years event will have to be planned in a different manner and have done well to change things around to get the entries up to a worthy number (well done Ian!). I think it will be another great event myself and cant wait though its a shame that the Zetec's are not out in such good numbers-I wonder what 2006 will bring us' regarding the National series...Ian, what do you see happening?

[Ian Sowman]

Regarding UKFFord? Heaven knows. I think a lot of people would like some answers to that question, and other related ones.

[itsonlyme]

IMHO i believe the 'festival' died when zetecs were introduced!

[blue nose]

Originally Posted by itsonlyme

IMHO i believe the 'festival' died when zetecs were introduced!

A festival should just be Formula Fords.......a bit like WHT.

[Ian Sowman]

... which has races for Allcomers, Karts, Historic Sportscars and the Secretary's Challenge.

[Redracer77]

Originally Posted by blue nose

A festival should just be Formula Fords.......a bit like WHT.

For that to happen that needs a lot more numbers. How can the BRSCC run an event on just 45 Zetecs and 60 kent cars Alan? When was the last time you travelled pikey or did the festival?

[blue nose]

Its too wet and too far, I will wait for the Diz fest.

[itsonlyme]

Originally Posted by Redracer77

For that to happen that needs a lot more numbers. How can the BRSCC run an event on just 45 Zetecs and 60 kent cars Alan? When was the last time you travelled pikey or did the festival?

chris, have you ever been to the ff1600 festival before zetecs were introduced?
there used to be 250+ ff1600's and 3 full days of excellent racing! since then zetecs took centre stage and ff1600 were just brushed aside!
now zetecs are on their ar5e (which i believe they always have been at the 'ff1600 festival' ........ at best - correct me if i am wrong - i dont think they couldnt even manage 3 full grids and should never of been allowed to be the main event at the festival seeing as it is the 'ff1600' festival!!!!) basically if you had a zetec at the festival and it was still working on the sunday you were guaranteed a slot in the grand final)
i mean 45 zetec cars for the countrys biggest an most prestigious event in club racing, when the 'ff1600 support race' can get 60+ entries, imagine how many ff1600's will enter next year if ff1600 was the rightful main event!

just look at how popular the WHT is with ff1600's because it is the 'main event'

[Redracer77]

Yes but steve the WHT has over 100 FF1600 because it is better located for more people to travel and is only £150 including testing, whereas the Festival is £495 for entry and testing.

I know JEB has to pay Silverstone Circuit for the hire for the weekend but it will be small change to what the BRSCC have to pay brands hatch. If I am not mistaken it costs £75,000 to run for 3 days on the indy hence the price. Not the BRSCC's fault. Their fault was not to set the timetable to help the most popular formula in plenty of time.

[Walshy]

We can argue the toss over this until the cows come home.

The simple fact of the matter is FF1600 is now a club sport and not the national package it used to be. As a club sport, it allows many many drivers on minimum budgets to compete in a sport they would not have been able to in the past. However, expensive trips to events like the Formula Ford Festival don't equate into those club budgets and so, they don't travel. There is nothing wrong with this. In fact, in my opinion, if FF1600 hadn't made the transition to a club event, it would be dead and buried by now.

If there was a choice, I would rather see the festival die if it meant the club scene remained healthy or even flourished as it currently is doing. Look at the greater number of cars doing the Fetival. Team run cars with the "bigger" budgets.

It's not that these drivers don't want to do the Festival, but a weekend at Brands adds up to maybe 3 races next season for the average clubbie.

However, the Walter Hayes is proving popular for the very reasons Chris has stated. Cost and geography. That simple.

And like Ian said before, the downfall of the Festival is not really attributed to any one factor, but more one of change and evolution.

[itsonlyme]

i understand what you are saying chris, but the only reason the WHT has started is due to the demise of the festival for the numerous reasons we have all been moaning on and on about.
i can remember when nearly all of the 'champion of oulton' competitors who weren't competing at the festival would travel down to brands just to witness 3 days of back to back ff1600 racing and 3 days of socialising as a 'break' away from racing but still being there to enjoy watching what they have been doing all season from the other side of the barrier.
i bet you will see less than half of the nwff1600 guys there this year, due to it not being ff1600, so like has been said on previous threads etc, why pay a fortune in hotels/petrol etc to watch a clubbie meeting!
the only reason i am going down this year is because i am 'on an earner' but in years gone by i would have gone down just to watch!

[Ian Sowman]

Originally Posted by itsonlyme

i understand what you are saying chris, but the only reason the WHT has started is due to the demise of the festival for the numerous reasons we have all been moaning on and on about.

That isn't quite true. It may have grown because of that.

[Mackmot]

Originally Posted by itsonlyme

chris, have you ever been to the ff1600 festival before zetecs were introduced?
there used to be 250+ ff1600's and 3 full days of excellent racing! since then zetecs took centre stage and ff1600 were just brushed aside!
now zetecs are on their ar5e (which i believe they always have been at the 'ff1600 festival' ........ at best - correct me if i am wrong - i dont think they couldnt even manage 3 full grids and should never of been allowed to be the main event at the festival seeing as it is the 'ff1600' festival!!!!) basically if you had a zetec at the festival and it was still working on the sunday you were guaranteed a slot in the grand final)
i mean 45 zetec cars for the countrys biggest an most prestigious event in club racing, when the 'ff1600 support race' can get 60+ entries, imagine how many ff1600's will enter next year if ff1600 was the rightful main event!

just look at how popular the WHT is with ff1600's because it is the 'main event'

Can I point out that 1600 grids were down to 9 cars or less when Vauxhall Junior came out. Then a change in engine didnt really bring back Formula Ford until 1996-7. Blaming an engine is just being ignorant and stupid. An engine makes a car go forward it doesnt change the way people go motor racing.

[itsonlyme]

ok i am ignorant and stupid - excuse me for mistaking this forum as a place were people can express their personal opinions! - but were is vauxhall junior now?
i admit im biased towards ff1600 and i am only pointing out how successful the ff1600 festival was and how much interest there still is for a weekend dedicated to ff1600s, but times change, and as said on numerous threads on here, organising race meetings is about making money not keeping everyone happy, and if race meetings dont have the races that people want to race in then surely entry levels will drop (ie. 9 car grids) but as it stands the WHT meeting seems to be attracting a lot of the ff1600 guys, so lets see which meeting proves more popular, even tho brands is the best place for the festival to be held IMHO

in response to ian ...... if the festival hadnt died then the WHT would still be a success like the moose trophy (ok the WHT has been boosted by the lack of enthusiasm for the festival), but the festival should still be the main ff1600 event of the season
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[Walshy]

I don't think your ignorant or stupid Steve and for someone to come on here and call you that is just pure rude and ignorant in itself.

I also know you are well placed to comment as you have been around FF1600 since you were born.

I don't think the WHT is as a consequence of the Festival. JEB comes across as a great bloke and we could do with more of his sort in our struggling sport, but the reason for the Walter Hayes, as is the reason for the MSV, is the seizer of a money making opportunity.....

Don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with that, so long as it's done right and the costs to drivers and teams are right.

Now, call it coincidence or fate, but the demise of the Festival could be slightly attributed to the haven that is the WHT. You only have to look at the difference in cost and location. Nobody to blame, but it's a competitive market out there and JEB has put a good, or should I say bloody brilliant package together and the BRSCC can't respond. For one, the circuit hire at Brands is the killer and that's before any of the other overheads.

Thus, the spiral of demise begins. The entry costs are high, so the "maybes" don't go. Other categories are brought in to help foot the bill. The hardcore fans stay away because they wanted to see FF and so on and so forth.

In my opinion, for what it's worth and I'll start a new Thread about this I think, when the opportunity arose, the BRSCC should have beg, stole and borrowed to get their hands on the Brands Hatch circuits. What better asset could they have had than owning their own circuits.

But that's History now and unfortunately, it looks like the Festival is heading that way. Don't get me wrong, I would like to see it continue, but I can't see it. From what I have heard about the cost of circuit hire at Brands, I am a little mithed that Mr JP hasn't done a deal with the BRSCC to reduce circuit hire fees. After all, he has this year, become a fan of FF hasn't he?

[Ian Sowman]

I'm equally sure that the reason behind the WHT isn't to "seize a money making opportunity".

I think you're right to some extent Walshy - some drivers will do the Festival or the WHT. Some will do only the Festival, and a good chunk of the WHT entry wouldn't event entertain the idea of going to Brands for the alternative race.

[Mackmot]

Both of you make the point beautifully, its a whole load of factors that has brought about the demise in numbers in Formula Ford and in the festival. I said its ignorant and stupid to blame the engine change which so often is used as an easy explaination.

Quite simply the days of massive grids and FF being THE place where drivers had to show off their skill before they ran out of money ended in the late 80s when people started spending more money and the competitive edge of the people at the front grew. Then with the introduction of one make formulae that basically bullpooed their way into motorsport the rot set in.

We then had a revival in the late 90s and early 00's when Vauxhall pulled out and now BMW has become dominant for the same crap reasons.

Add that to young people nowadays not having a care in the world or any determination and they just take the easiest option. A nice looking car thats easy to drive.

[itsonlyme]

mackmot, i knew what you meant but i was just being a 'little' bit sarcastic

[Walshy]

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

I'm equally sure that the reason behind the WHT isn't to "seize a money making opportunity".

I think you're right to some extent Walshy - some drivers will do the Festival or the WHT. Some will do only the Festival, and a good chunk of the WHT entry wouldn't event entertain the idea of going to Brands for the alternative race.

Don't get me wrong Ian. JEB's love of Formula Ford is more than aparant and who can blame him, but the WHT wouldn't be running if it wasn't viable.....................

FACT.

[Redracer77]

you are missing the point Walshy, the reason the WHT is "viable" at the prices JEB is charging is based on the much smaller circuit hire cost for the BRDC compared to the BRSCC for brands

[MarkG]

I completely agree with Walshy's comments from the 15th Oct, Formula Ford 1600 is now a club racing formula. The great Formula Ford Festivals of yesteryear are gone, and happened because during that time, Formula Ford was "the" category for up-and-coming drivers world-wide to showcase their talent. I may go to watch the Festival this year, and even though there's been an improvement in the timetable, and no matter how good the racing is, I know I will feel it is just good club-racing I'm watching.