1984 Trimoco RAC British Saloon Car Championship - Discussion & Results

[KA]

...and as modelled by Corgi back in the 80's...

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...RGIESCORT9.jpg

[LeeCS]

not sure if its worth posting because i used the national hot rod photo as a reference but ive done the barry lee car for my collection of btcc blueprints..

[KA]

Originally Posted by Frank de Jong

Since both Brodie and Goode were disqualified in the end, Dolley still won class B!
A few other notes: Taft had both #43 and #36 (at Thruxton, rd 4 at least). #42 Terry Drury racing Alfa was driven by Drury himself.
In a few weeks, the BSCC 1984 will be available at my site - my results for 1984 are pretty complete, and I even could match the final points standing on the official site with my race results.

1984 results are now up!
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...84%20BSCC.html

Looking through them, I've immediately noticed a couple of quite significant things that I think we'd missed out altogether in the thread- Frank mentioned above the appearance of a 3rd Drury Alfa for TD himself, but there's also the debut in the last couple of rounds of Alan Minshaw's Mk2 Golf, and one that I'd forgotten about altogether, and which poses a question.

David Sutherland made one appearance late-season at Donington in a 635, finishing 8th. Whose 635 was it?
The CC, Sytner and Kennedy/Grundig cars are all present, so he wasn't standing in for any of the regulars.
I've got a vague memory that it might have been a second Sytner car- Did Frank have a second car available by late '84? IIRC he sold one to NZ over the winter of 84/85, as well as buying and eventually selling-on the CC cars

Quite a lot of 1984 pics as well,
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...0pictures.html
including a shot of the Barry Lee RS1600i mentioned in the last few posts
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...on%20Park.html

[chunterer]

I think we have mentioned those points before in various threads KA but good idea to raise them again!

The Sutherland car was a second Sytner car, and I think we found that it was the same car that he ran in early 1985 (then sold?) but we don't know if it was his 1983 car, or a re-shelled car.

I thought Drury only ran a 3rd GTV6 at the last 2 meetings, although Frank's site clearly shows it at the BGP meeting!

The Mk2 Minshaw Golf also only did the last round or two. It was definitely at Silverstone's final round as I have it in a picture which I will try and post if I can find it (although like the other pics I posted ages ago it is a long way from the lens!).

Interesting shot of Rouse's Rover on Franks's site. It's parked at the side of the circuit (by the hairpin?) with Rouse stood behind it talking to another driver. I can't work out who it is?

[chunterer]

Also just noticed something highly amusing in the Easter Monday pics on the site.

If you look at Pond's car exiting the chicane, behind you can make out Peter Lovett barging up the inside of James Weaver's BMW coming into it!!!

It was a particularly fraught struggle IIRC!!

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I think we have mentioned those points before in various threads KA but good idea to raise them again!

The Sutherland car was a second Sytner car, and I think we found that it was the same car that he ran in early 1985 (then sold?) but we don't know if it was his 1983 car, or a re-shelled car.

I thought Drury only ran a 3rd GTV6 at the last 2 meetings, although Frank's site clearly shows it at the BGP meeting!

The Mk2 Minshaw Golf also only did the last round or two. It was definitely at Silverstone's final round as I have it in a picture which I will try and post if I can find it (although like the other pics I posted ages ago it is a long way from the lens!).

Interesting shot of Rouse's Rover on Franks's site. It's parked at the side of the circuit (by the hairpin?) with Rouse stood behind it talking to another driver. I can't work out who it is?

Thanks, I thought that it was a Sytner car as well, but couldn't think where I'd seen it mentioned before.
IIRC, Frank's own car at Donington was the one that had been shunted at the TT, and was rebuilt for Donington- one of the race reports suggested that Ted Grace's crew had to virtually graft a whole new rear end onto the shell.

Yes, I saw that pic of the Rouse Rover, and I can't work out who's talking to Andy in it either.

[Frank de Jong]

Glad you all enjoyed (and studied) it! One thing I don't understand is that Morris had to get an 1.8 engine for his Scirocco II, since "the 1.6 wasn't homologated anymore". Meanwhile, in the Netherlands, a 1.6 Scirocco II happily got its championship. As far as I know, the Scirocco II 1.6 GLI was homologated as a variant of the original Scirocco GTI. Was Morris badly informed?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by KA

Thanks, I thought that it was a Sytner car as well, but couldn't think where I'd seen it mentioned before.
IIRC, Frank's own car at Donington was the one that had been shunted at the TT, and was rebuilt for Donington- one of the race reports suggested that Ted Grace's crew had to virtually graft a whole new rear end onto the shell.

Yes, I saw that pic of the Rouse Rover, and I can't work out who's talking to Andy in it either.

If Frank's main car was the one shunted and re-built then the Donington Sutherland car could well have been an older car - i'm not convinced the car Sytner used in 1983 was also his main steed in '84. Either that or he bought another car during the season! From memory the Sutherland car ran in an almost completely plain white livery?

The only person I can think of with a similar profile to the guy that Andy is talking to in that pic was Tony Pond? It does look like a driver in overalls.... It doesn't explain why that car and those drivers were stopped trackside though. Presumably it wasn't raceday?

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

The only person I can think of with a similar profile to the guy that Andy is talking to in that pic was Tony Pond? It does look like a driver in overalls.... It doesn't explain why that car and those drivers were stopped trackside though. Presumably it wasn't raceday?

Yep, looking at it again, I think it is Tony Pond.
I found a pic saved on my PC (IIRC it was originally posted somewhere on the Rover thread, apologies for not crediting the original poster, but can't remember who it was!) which is apparently taken in the pits at Oulton the same weekend. Check out the arrangement of sponsor patches on the sleeve of Tony's racesuit,with that distinctive 'Esso' patch at the top and compare it with the Rouse pic
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...ton-1984-7.jpg

Both drivers finished the race, so I guess it must have been taken during one of the practice or qualifying sessions- presumably both Andy and Tony had either had an off or a mechanical problem somewhere around the same region of the track? I can't think of any other reason they'd both be parked up trackside....

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

If Frank's main car was the one shunted and re-built then the Donington Sutherland car could well have been an older car - i'm not convinced the car Sytner used in 1983 was also his main steed in '84. Either that or he bought another car during the season! From memory the Sutherland car ran in an almost completely plain white livery?

From vague memory, Frank got a new car sometime during 84, but I'd need to dig through the 635 thread to be sure of that.
He certainly sold one to NZ over the winter of 84/5, as he shared it with the new owner (John Morton) in the Nissan-Mobil 500 races.
Funnily enough, I think the second car he turned out for the Donington ETC race in '85 for Hamish Irvine/John Clark was plain white, but I suspect that might not be the same car that Sutherland raced....
The Sytner 635 story has always been a bit confusing, as pretty much every 635 raced in the BTCC (apart from the BS/Cheylesmore car) seems to have passed though Frank's hands at some point....

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by KA

From vague memory, Frank got a new car sometime during 84, but I'd need to dig through the 635 thread to be sure of that.
He certainly sold one to NZ over the winter of 84/5, as he shared it with the new owner (John Morton) in the Nissan-Mobil 500 races.
Funnily enough, I think the second car he turned out for the Donington ETC race in '85 for Hamish Irvine/John Clark was plain white, but I suspect that might not be the same car that Sutherland raced....
The Sytner 635 story has always been a bit confusing, as pretty much every 635 raced in the BTCC (apart from the BS/Cheylesmore car) seems to have passed though Frank's hands at some point....

The Morton car, at least when he first ran it after purchase was also plain white (or a cream) from memory? If so my money's on that being the car DS raced......

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by KA

Yep, looking at it again, I think it is Tony Pond.

Check out the arrangement of sponsor patches on the sleeve of Tony's racesuit,with that distinctive 'Esso' patch at the top and compare it with the Rouse pic
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...ton-1984-7.jpg

Both drivers finished the race, so I guess it must have been taken during one of the practice or qualifying sessions- presumably both Andy and Tony had either had an off or a mechanical problem somewhere around the same region of the track? I can't think of any other reason they'd both be parked up trackside....

Yes, further evidence suggesting it's Pond! Also wondering if there was any BSCC testing at the Cheshire venue prior to the Good Friday meeting? Maybe the shot could've been taken then.

[dave174]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Cracking work there KA!!

Re 1984: Rob Hall's RS1600i was entered under either; Universal Grinding Wheels and/or some Ford dealership in Stafford. Can't remember exactly? The car was prep'd by John Maguire.

EDIT!! It was entered by Julian May Racing but prep'd by Maguire in both 1983 and '84 with the Universal backing? Can anyone else confirm this at all?

help needed, i have just had a mk1 fiesta come into my possesion, it has prepared by julian may racing, mechanic pete williams, on the sides of the car near sill hight the car is a reddy orange with gold stripe along the sides and up the rear pillar,on the doors are trimoco stickers at the top of the number squares.there are also remnants of duckhams oil stickers on front wing, any imformation would be most helpfull,we have now got the car running and may enter some local sprints and track days. thanks dave174

[chunterer]

Welcome dave!

From your account of this car my thoughts are that it could be the Fiesta that Julian May ran for Jock Robertson (or Rob Hall?) in the early part of the 1983 Trimoco BTCC before his Escort RS1600i was ready.

That particular Fiesta probably ran in the last season of Group 1 in 1982 as well and then possibly changed to Group A specs for 1983.

Could do with some input from other tenthers here!!

[Jesper OH]

Tony Crudgington might have a one race history with this Fiesta in the second half of the 1983 BSCC.

Jesper

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Welcome dave!

From your account of this car my thoughts are that it could be the Fiesta that Julian May ran for Jock Robertson (or Rob Hall?) in the early part of the 1983 Trimoco BTCC before his Escort RS1600i was ready.

That particular Fiesta probably ran in the last season of Group 1 in 1982 as well and then possibly changed to Group A specs for 1983.

Could do with some input from other tenthers here!!

Yes, Dave's description of his car sounds exactly like the Julian May/Pegasus car from 1982/3.....

Robertson at Mallory in 1982 (photo by Simon Arron)
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1451/scan0016lm0.jpg

Raced by Jock Robertson through the 1982 season, and the first four rounds or thereabouts in 1983, until the new RS1600i was ready.

May also had a 1.3 Fiesta in 1981, which was raced by Alex Moss and on occasion Julian May himself- Wonder if this could be the same car that Robertson used in '82 in 1.6 form? Wouldn't surprise me, as the Julian May/Pegasus Mouldings outfit could never have been accused of being overfunded, given how long they persevered with the RS1600i....

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j2..._1239_1acd.jpg

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by KA

Yes, Dave's description of his car sounds exactly like the Julian May/Pegasus car from 1982/3.....

Robertson at Mallory in 1982 (photo by Simon Arron)
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1451/scan0016lm0.jpg

Would this be the same Julian May Escort that was around in 1987/1988? ..shifting hands by the meeting?

Jesper

[KA]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Would this be the same Julian May Escort that was around in 1987/1988? ..shifting hands by the meeting?

Jesper

AFAIK they had two Escorts- the first, which replaced the Fiesta we've just been discussing midway through 1983 was written off in the Thruxton shunt in 1985 (Patrick Watts was their regular driver by then), and a replacement built up from a a new shell in about 10 days for the next round- they were still finishing it in the paddock at the next round.
This second car was the one driven by pretty much everyone, but particularly Phil Dowsett and Barbara Cowell in 1987/8

IIRC the original Escort was white, the replacement was either beige or grey, and still exists, in pretty much original condition- I saw photos of it on one of the Ford RS Club forums a couple of years back

[KA]

The second May/Pegasus Escort- Patrick Watts at Silverstone in '85

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._3187317_n.jpg

As I said, it's still around- these pics seem to be from when it was advertised for sale about 5 years ago

http://85.234.145.37/Remote098763243...t__rdonno2.jpg

http://85.234.145.37/Remote098763243..._rDscn0076.jpg

http://85.234.145.37/Remote098763243..._rDscn0080.jpg

IIRC the owner posted on 'Tenths for a while a couple of years back

[dave174]

Thank you KA for all the imformation and the photo, the car looks the same as in the photo less the pegasus advertising,when finished the car wil be used again thanks to all Dave.

[KA]

Originally Posted by dave174

Thank you KA for all the imformation and the photo, the car looks the same as in the photo less the pegasus advertising,when finished the car wil be used again thanks to all Dave.

Cheers Dave, happy to help! From your description of the paintjob, it sounds like it might be pretty original in terms of the shell at least. What kind of spec is it in now, still a 1.6?

[KA]

Originally Posted by KA

AFAIK they had two Escorts- the first, which replaced the Fiesta we've just been discussing midway through 1983 was written off in the Thruxton shunt in 1985 (Patrick Watts was their regular driver by then), and a replacement built up from a a new shell in about 10 days for the next round- they were still finishing it in the paddock at the next round.
This second car was the one driven by pretty much everyone, but particularly Phil Dowsett and Barbara Cowell in 1987/8

IIRC the original Escort was white, the replacement was either beige or grey, and still exists, in pretty much original condition- I saw photos of it on one of the Ford RS Club forums a couple of years back

Funny this subject should come up tonight, as I've just found some 1985 BTCC pics from the combined BTCC/ETC meeting on Flickr, and there's a shot here of Patrick Watts in the Pegasus Escort.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...57627469766722

This AFAIK is the original white Julian May Escort raced by Jock Robertson in 1983/4, replacing the Fiesta.

The white Escort was written off at Thruxton a few weeks after this pic was taken, and replaced by the grey car in the pics I linked a couple of pages back.

[dave174]

Hi KA, The car is still a 1600cc crossflow with split twin 48s only using 1 side of the carb this is as was run in the eightys,the car came from pete williams estate who passed away last year,his name is on the car as mechanic, he took over the car after its circuit career and used it for sprints with borough19 and hanger11 sprints it was due to be used at brighton speed trials in 2008 but not sure if he managed to get there, the car has been fitted with some hand controls and a pneumatic clutch as peter was disabled at this time

[Terry Nightingale]

Hi Dave,
I raced this car for Julian May in the 1980 Trimoco Championship, I think it started life as a 1300s, it changed to 1600 midway between the 81 season I think, by which time I had departed to run a Dolomite Sprint, what is the base colour is it Red? If it is the original 1300 car then it started life with Stuart McCrudden when he worked for Ford he now runs the Historic Formula 1 Championship.
Peter Williams worked for Julian May during the 80's I was sad to hear of his passing. I remember Gerry Marshall saying to me at Arthur Mallock's funeral that the older you get the more funerals you go to, he was so right. Anyway if you want any further information get in touch.
Cheers Terry Nightingale

[chunterer]

Hi Terry, welcome to the forum ands thanks for posting what you know about this car.

Would you like to post in some of the other threads that are relevant to your career?

There's loads about the BTCC and prodsaloons as i'm sure you've noticed!!

One question I guess a lot of us would like to ask you is did you find any signs of nitrous residue in the roll cage of the ex TWR RX7 you raced for a bit in 1982??