official news from toyota

[gttouring]

it was reported today that the end of 2006 IRL season toyota will be out of "open wheel" in the USA
ironically the new USAC Midget power plant is underdevelopment and has orders for them (USAC IS open wheel) a sprint car program and a crate motor program is rumored to follow.
the rumors are now confirmed. ANd news towards a Busch (in NASCAR) or Cup program remains tight lipped

[Team Owner]

Originally Posted by gttouring

it was reported today that the end of 2006 IRL season toyota will be out of "open wheel" in the USA
ironically the new USAC Midget power plant is underdevelopment and has orders for them (USAC IS open wheel) a sprint car program and a crate motor program is rumored to follow.
the rumors are now confirmed. ANd news towards a Busch (in NASCAR) or Cup program remains tight lipped

It's official...............

[mac]

Yep, it is done.

[Kicking-back]

At least they're providing plenty of notice.

[climb]

IN any case we are sure that they won't leave at the end of the current season, like many feared up to some days ago.

[mountainstar]

I don't think it's a big surprise. We've been expecting it for a while.

Engines for the IRL will never be a problem, as you can always have someone crank you out some, but the loss of the subsidies is going to cause some hard change. Since Toyota and GM are out, I think we can expect that if Honda stays, there certainly will not be any need to spend the big bucks on supporting teams.

[BootsOntheSide]

No surprise, but still likely to be bad news. We'll ahve to wait and see how the next engine programme works out, and which companies are interested in supplying them, before we can say for definite. Costs should drop, which might be good for some of the struggling teams, but it will make it harder for the top drivers to get the salaries they're used to, as mopuntainstar says.

[racer69]

Who will continue with Toyota next year?

What is Penske going to do with his new purchase?

[mabs_nsx]

Why are they leaving IRL to go to Nascar?

[mabs_nsx]

Will Honda now come back to CC's?

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by mabs_nsx

Will Honda now come back to CC's?

Unlikely.

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by mabs_nsx

Why are they leaving IRL to go to Nascar?

Not many people watch ChampCar or IndyCar.

Lots of people watch NASCAR.

[mabs_nsx]

Why?

Champcars and Indycars are 10 times better than Nascar!

[mabs_nsx]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Unlikely.

Honda could return to Champcars in 2007 if no new engine manufacturers enter the Indycars. Honda has said that it is not interested in staying on by itself so it too is expected to depart from the championship.

[Snrub]

I guess the real question is, what will Toyota's 2006 be like? If we go back to 2002 in Champ Car, Honda clearly backed off their effort while Toyota didn't. We all laughed when GM claimed their 2005 IRL effort would aim for wins, but they are putting in a legit effort. The one thing we don't really know from Champ Car 2002 was did the manufacturers back off their subsidization of the teams? If Toyota is less helpfull to their teams then Honda will whipe the floor with them.

Originally Posted by mabs_nsx

Why? Champcars and Indycars are 10 times better than Nascar!

Unfortunately there are tens of millions of people who disagree with us on that.

[infoxicated]

If I was Bryan Herta, I'd start putting in performances in a hurry - not just top tens, but wins. The first casualties when the subsidation dries up will be the highly paid passengers.

[BootsOntheSide]

ChampCars will have spec Cosworth engines for as long as Kevin Kalhoven owns the company. Never again will the championship be destabilised by engine manufacturers bringing in big money bribes for teams, and then withdrawing to leave those teams under-funded and forced to scale back their efforts.

[GP Racer]

Hmmm, there's an awful lot of people mentioning that other series here in the IRL forum...

In a way, it might be the best thing to see the manufacturers go. I'll miss some of the things they brought, but I do kind of miss what the IRL was, and the whole vision thing, which I believed in and thought it was just what open wheel racing needed. It's time for the IRL to get back to its roots, where we have affordable racing for everyone, a more level playing field for everyone, a series that will once again give no-name, no-money drivers a shot at open wheel glory, and a more diverse engine program.

Nice of Toyota to stick around and give the IRL some time to sort things out though. Now, I really can't wait to hear about the 07 engine program! Can you say "stock block"?

[mabs_nsx]

CCWS:
Honda & Cosworth

Indycars:
???????

[macdaddy]

Chevy is out. Toyota is out.
Honda has been conversing with another series, but nobody knows why.

racer69 asks a very interesting question,
"What is Penske going to do with his new purchase?"

I kinda wonder if he's not posturing Ilmor to provide the entire field, much as Cosworth does elsewhere. This being, of course, a worst-case scenerio.

[Ac.]

Originally Posted by Snrub

The one thing we don't really know from Champ Car 2002 was did the manufacturers back off their subsidization of the teams? If Toyota is less helpfull to their teams then Honda will whipe the floor with them.

The bigger question is how much Honda will start pulling back their subsidization. The three and four car teams for Honda may continue to exist next season, but without their arch rival to compete against in 2007 the budget will likely be cut back significantly, that is if Honda stays in the IRL at all. Given today's news I'd say that is looking less likely.

[jock25]

I would think Honda would find justification for staying if Chevy reverse their decision and Hyundai (or a.n. other manufacturer) badges the chevworth engine also.

Personally my enthusiasm for a stock block kit, with scope for tuning is growing. Direct manufacturer involvement, as has been the case in the IRL for several years now, inevitably leads to peaks and troughs for the series concerned. The IRL seems to be sensibly moving towards engine regs which insulate Indycars against these peaks and troughs associated with big money manufacturer involvement and the subsequent vacuum they leave.

The IRL must look to maintain its output (e.g. exciting racing) first and manufacturer involvement a secondary bonus. Whether the IRL moves towards different manufacturers (or corporates like Petronas in F1) badging the current Chevworth unit, or the stock block option, hopefully they will realise direct manufacturer involvement tends to lead to "seven fat years and seven lean years".

IMHO, the season following Toyota's withdrawal the field will be supplied by basic Cosworth (or perhaps also Illmor) spec units, tuned by specialists and badged by Chevy, Hyundai and perhaps even Ford. With no direct involvement and minimal team subsidies (I put that one in specially for GP Racer )

[Ac.]

Originally Posted by jock25

IMHO, the season following Toyota's withdrawal the field will be supplied by basic Cosworth (or perhaps also Illmor) spec units, tuned by specialists and badged by Chevy, Hyundai and perhaps even Ford. With no direct involvement and minimal team subsidies (I put that one in specially for GP Racer )

You may have put that in for GP, but you are probably right on the money. The question is, what is going to happen to all of the teams that live off of the money, subsidies that is?

[jock25]

A very good point AC.

I guess the hope has to be that the budgets for the teams fall as the manufacturers throttle-back on spending, reducing some of the short-fall. Factor in (potentially) greater sponsor interest due to rising TV viewing figures, attendance and general media interest (yes the D factor) that could also help to reduce some of the short-fall.

This is all conjecture of course as the key is the real extent to which certain teams are/are not subsidised by their engine partners, and how that impacts on how much they charge for sponsorship opportunities and their development budgets.

On a positive note teams will perhaps just have to work harder to prepare for the inevitable loss of funding in the future, and the IRL at a wider level will need to work harder to ensure that come 2007/08 teams are in a strong position when it comes to sponsor negotiations (consistently rising viewing figures, strong race day attendance, general media interest etc.)

[Snrub]

This is a very good discussion.

I think the mention of CC is important because the IRL is essentially reliving CC's situation a few years ago. The past has a tendancy to repeat itself. What I find interesting about this is how will the IRL deal with this problem and can they keep the ship headed in the right direction while this is going on?

AC & infoxicated make a very important point. Notice how Penske has only two cars, yet they are supposidly the top Toyota works team? It really makes me wonder about the 4 AGR cars, 3 Rahal and 3 Ganassi cars.
* On AGR I could see 1-2 of those cars disappearing. Herta's main purpose on AGR is that he's the techncial guy. While he may not be as successful, he comes up with the setups for Kannan and Weldon to win the races. Why do they need Dario?
* On Rahal, Miera would obvioulsy be the odd man out.
* Ganassi is a tough call. At first glance one might think Briscoe, but despite being 2003 champ, Dixon has hardly been setting the world on fire of late.