2010 Intercontinental Le Mans Cup Round 3 - Zhuhai , 6-7 November

[Lola T70]

Originally Posted by TF110

Audi didn't have the sheer pace as the Peugeot's. If you think they did you must have watched a different race. They were faster. The only thing that kept Audi in the race was traffic IMO. They weren't that much slower, but they were definitely slower. Maybe by a second or less, but it adds up. Who knows, maybe this track will be a different story, but from Silverstone, LeMans, Petit, it doesn't seem that way.

No I watched same race, and looked at facts.

Audi 7 led for 83 laps, Peugeot 07 for 69 laps and the 08 for the rest.

Audi 7 was leading both Peugeots on lap 262 when they went a lap down with a under green pit stop.

Audi 7 fastest outright lap was the same as Peugeot 07 but Peugeot 08 was 0.5 faster.

Whether Audi was in the game only due to traffic or not is not really valid, as there will be traffic in all multi class Sportscar races and China will be the same.

I am not arguing Peugeot is a faster car but do not think by the facts above Audi has no chance as suggested! Oh and Audi won Le Mans

[Speed-King]

Oh and Audi won Le Mans

WRONG! Peugeot lost Le Mans...

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

WRONG! Peugeot lost Le Mans...

What's this? Le Mans is now suddenly a game of king of the hill between Audi and Peugeot where the only way to get the "hill" is by winning the 24 Hours of Le Mans?

So that means Audi is in the lead, 3 wins to 1.

[Simmi]

Cant wait for the ILMC next year when the cars will be forced to compete against each other on a more regular basis.

Incidentally there are interesting rumblings about next year and the big two not being happy with the ACO and plans to performance balance the diesels/petrol cars mid-season in the run-up to Le Mans. Based on the performances at Petit and the first two LMS races.

Peugeot seem to think it could lead to sandbagging in the early races.

[Lola T70]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

WRONG! Peugeot lost Le Mans...

Bizarre rational but okay if you insist.

Audi Le Mans 24 hour WINNERS

Peugeot Le Mans 24 Hour LOOSERS

[MihokS5]

I was ay Petit and one of the main topics that was CONSTANTLY being discuseed by everyone was the amount of black smoke the Pugs were putting out. There were also some teams that complained to the ACO earlier in the week but nobody did anything.

It appeared as though the French were really pushing those engines hard to keep the edge on Audi knwoing that they didnt have to go more than 20 hours and risk blowing up again!

After seeing both cars on the track its very clear that Audi has a much more efficient and clean running race car. It may be a bit slower, but at least it doesnt "crop dust" the rest of the field

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by MihokS5

I was ay Petit and one of the main topics that was CONSTANTLY being discuseed by everyone was the amount of black smoke the Pugs were putting out. There were also some teams that complained to the ACO earlier in the week but nobody did anything.

It appeared as though the French were really pushing those engines hard to keep the edge on Audi knwoing that they didnt have to go more than 20 hours and risk blowing up again!

After seeing both cars on the track its very clear that Audi has a much more efficient and clean running race car. It may be a bit slower, but at least it doesnt "crop dust" the rest of the field

It is definitely an interesting point. Did anyone see the Pugs doing the same thing at Silverstone? I must admit I didn't see any evidence of it myself trackside.

[NightStalk3r]

Originally Posted by Simmi

It is definitely an interesting point. Did anyone see the Pugs doing the same thing at Silverstone? I must admit I didn't see any evidence of it myself trackside.

Yes they were, so much so that the tire walls on the rear tires were covered in soot, you couldnt see the michelin logo anymore.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

Yes they were, so much so that the tire walls on the rear tires were covered in soot, you couldnt see the michelin logo anymore.

I did notice the rear tyres were covered. Well whatever they are doing currently its working. Just not over 24 hours.

[ubrben]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Peugeot seem to think it could lead to sandbagging in the early races.

So basically like every GT2 race you've ever seen apart from Le Mans and Petit most years.

Admittedly not ideal in a prototype class, but hardly unprecedented.

Ben

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by MihokS5

I was ay Petit and one of the main topics that was CONSTANTLY being discuseed by everyone was the amount of black smoke the Pugs were putting out. There were also some teams that complained to the ACO earlier in the week but nobody did anything.

It appeared as though the French were really pushing those engines hard to keep the edge on Audi knwoing that they didnt have to go more than 20 hours and risk blowing up again!

After seeing both cars on the track its very clear that Audi has a much more efficient and clean running race car. It may be a bit slower, but at least it doesnt "crop dust" the rest of the field

They have been doing this since Le Mans, both Peugeot and Audi, but it's less visible on the Audi due to the high exhaust exits. It was very obviously visible at Le Mans on both cars under the Dunlop Bridge.

[Spyderman]

Agreed! Quite clearly seen.

[MihokS5]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

They have been doing this since Le Mans, both Peugeot and Audi, but it's less visible on the Audi due to the high exhaust exits. It was very obviously visible at Le Mans on both cars under the Dunlop Bridge.

The R15 does not put out nearly as much as the 908 and I watched closely for the full race. It was even being talked about by commentators on TV.

Audis campaign is "clean diesel" and even with the high exhaust exits, the rear engine covers did not have a lot of buildup on them from the exhaust

There was also discussion on what particulate filter setup the 908 was running because it definitely was not effective.

Regardless, I'm glad I got to see the 908 and R15 in person before they are both retired. The 908 is definitely mean looking and fast which you would expect considering they are running a V12, and the R15 was insane looking from all angles

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by MihokS5

I was ay Petit and one of the main topics that was CONSTANTLY being discuseed by everyone was the amount of black smoke the Pugs were putting out. There were also some teams that complained to the ACO earlier in the week but nobody did anything.

It appeared as though the French were really pushing those engines hard to keep the edge on Audi knwoing that they didnt have to go more than 20 hours and risk blowing up again!

After seeing both cars on the track its very clear that Audi has a much more efficient and clean running race car. It may be a bit slower, but at least it doesnt "crop dust" the rest of the field

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

They have been doing this since Le Mans, both Peugeot and Audi, but it's less visible on the Audi due to the high exhaust exits. It was very obviously visible at Le Mans on both cars under the Dunlop Bridge.

Originally Posted by MihokS5

The R15 does not put out nearly as much as the 908 and I watched closely for the full race. It was even being talked about by commentators on TV.

Audis campaign is "clean diesel" and even with the high exhaust exits, the rear engine covers did not have a lot of buildup on them from the exhaust

There was also discussion on what particulate filter setup the 908 was running because it definitely was not effective.

Regardless, I'm glad I got to see the 908 and R15 in person before they are both retired. The 908 is definitely mean looking and fast which you would expect considering they are running a V12, and the R15 was insane looking from all angles

Your all sadly mistaken. If you remember at Lemans whenever that Audi came out of the dunlop chicane an under the dunlop brodge you could see the diesel smoke fuming out of the back against the sky backdrop.

[chernaudi]

But I didn't see that at PLM, and the diesel smoke and soot should've been a clear as day in the sunlight. The Pugs certinaly smoked like an old F350 diesel. High exhaust or not, if the Audis smoked as bad, it should've been evident.

I guess that the Peugeots ditched the DPFs to increase power for when they reverted back to the pre-LM steel con rods.

Audi may be in contention based on Silverstone and PLM. However, they can't have issues like the diff failure at Silverstone, being forced to run off road which badly damaged cars at PLM, and Audi probably won't run an all-aluminum front diffuser again unless it's much more rigidly braced to the nose of the car (one Pug had a similar off late in the race, and the only concern was the grass in the radiator ducts), no freak issues like what happened with Dindo's helmet and Audi may need a little help to close up in the teams' championship hunt (a 1-2 finish, and the Pugs to stay clear of the podium), and a lot to win the manufacturers' title (both Pugs to DNF and not be classified).

Still, Audi can win at Zhuhai, and if lucky can at least snag the teams' championship. However, aside from that, they'll need Peugeot to have a Le Mans-style festival of Peugeot screwing themselves.

[CarolK]

Originally Posted by Simmi

It is definitely an interesting point. Did anyone see the Pugs doing the same thing at Silverstone? I must admit I didn't see any evidence of it myself trackside.

We were there too and didn't see what was referenced at Road Atlanta.

[chernaudi]

The evidence was on TV--every time the Pugs came to turn 6 dead at the cameras, there was black soot coming out of the exhaust, and it got worse on overrun. Also, every stop where the 908s changed tires, you couldn't read the Michelin branding on the rear tires, to soot was so thick.

[TF110]

So what? At least they got the job done. A win is a win is a win. Soot or not, they lasted the whole race, and were the winners. That's all that matters. Zuhai won't be any different, as long as they can do what they did in Atlanta, they'll repeat the win.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

Your all sadly mistaken. If you remember at Lemans whenever that Audi came out of the dunlop chicane an under the dunlop brodge you could see the diesel smoke fuming out of the back against the sky backdrop.

I meant less visible at tracks like Road Atlanta, with their kind of backdrop. At Le Mans I know it was clearly visible and it was chugging almost as much as the Pugs, only it all went into the air, not straight onto the rear tires. And, cleverly, the R15's livery in the exhaust exit area is... matte-black.

[Asa]

Zhuhai is very tough on brakes and engine, with many long straights and 2nd gear corners. I think Audi might win it due to its better reliability.

[MihokS5]

You Pug fans are in denial. I'm not saying that the Audi doesn't have exhaust soot because that is physically impossible, I'm saying that the 908 puts out way more and it is clearly visible all the time.

The fact that you are citing track 'backdrops" as a way of hiding it is laughable. If the Audi was that bad it would be clear on every track

The 908 has a 2 cylinder advantage and is still not as efficient

[911targa]

and in GT2 class,the situation is not very good for porsche considering Ried will pick #88 with 2 fast man,still 2(ProSpeed,Proton#77) vs 2(CRS,AF) for the constructors' classification

[NightStalk3r]

Originally Posted by 911targa

and in GT2 class,the situation is not very good for porsche considering Ried will pick #88 with 2 fast man,still 2(ProSpeed,Proton#77) vs 2(CRS,AF) for the constructors' classification

After the well rather crap showing from Porsche at Petit you can kiss any chance of the constructors title in the ILMC goodbye.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by MihokS5

You Pug fans are in denial. I'm not saying that the Audi doesn't have exhaust soot because that is physically impossible, I'm saying that the 908 puts out way more and it is clearly visible all the time.

The fact that you are citing track 'backdrops" as a way of hiding it is laughable. If the Audi was that bad it would be clear on every track

Just one question and I'll drop this: can you see black smoke against dark green tree background? I'm just saying that the different exhaust exit types can make for a tricky comparison.

In any case, it was actually first noticed on the Audi at Le Mans (at least by the Racecar Engineering folks): http://www.mulsannescorner.com/RCELeMans2010.html

"The Audi and Peugeot are both significantly louder than previously and the Audi smokes under load."

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I guess that the Peugeots ditched the DPFs to increase power for when they reverted back to the pre-LM steel con rods.

Had they ditched the particulate filters, the car should have been smoking a lot, lot, lot, lot, LOT more. There's some footage from the 2007 race after Rocky's crash in the Audi, where he went in backwards and mashed the whole rear end in, including destroying the DPFs, and he started the car to try and get it back to the pits... and the car immediately chugged out an enormous quantity of white and grey smoke.


Anyway... we've gone too far off-topic. :|

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by vyselegend

Since Motors TV confirmed yesterday that their coverage will be differed, is there any chance we get a live stream of the action?

Also, since usual Live Timing & Scoring functions are assumed by respective organizers websites (LMS, ALMS), where will we have to look that one for?

It calls itself an International Championship and can't be bothered to stream it around the World (FIA GT1) or show it on Speed, Bloomberg, Versus, ESPN, Discovery?

If they don't get major TV for the whole series next year, I wouldn't be shocked. Thus far they have showed no idea how to run a series properly.