Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Classic Cars Monthly Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Historic Racing & Motorsport History > Motorsport History

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 8 Mar 2012, 21:23 (Ref:3037240)   #1251
Clive Brown
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
England
North-west Kent
Posts: 1,393
Clive Brown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I am a little puzzled by this talk of engine numbers, as I would have thought that new cars were supplied as rollers only so that the customer could fit an S2000 motor from his or her chosen tuner. The better-heeled teams did tend to carry spare motors with them, so engine numbers might in any case be swapped from meeting-to-meeting. Furthermore, did most tuners not build motors from parts? If so, would the block even have an engine number?

Perhaps the motor that Owen installed in the car was not the same one with which it came to Paul; it could be that Paul still has that original Pinto, rather than the one with which he sold it to Dennis.
Clive Brown is offline  
__________________
Columnated ruins domino
Quote
Old 8 Mar 2012, 22:32 (Ref:3037283)   #1252
911thillclimber
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
West Midlands
Posts: 1,981
911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
From my Lola list of 490/492's, only 27 of the 101 cars were rollers. all had gearboxes.

The engine that came with the dark red Lola to Paul is in the barn. The engine that went in the Lola re-build by Owen for Paul was another Pinto.

I (dangerously) assume the barn engine is the factory engine.
If so, then that will be Bingo as i can trace it to it's HU number.

I'm surprised the car was so beaten-up.
When Paul got it it must have been in 1983 or 4 so maybe just 3 years old.

I am in Paul's hands now.

I need to go down to his place (have the address) and get the front shell and see/buy the engine for the number.

To come back with the Spec sheet would be so good esp if the engine number matches the HUXX on the spec sheet.
I'm working on Mrs Hillclimber to go next Saturday.

Tied-up this weekend or I would be going now.

So very close to a conclusion.

There were 9 'Red' Lola's sold with large tube frames.
All but 2 went to HAAS.

One to Sweden, one to Holland.

Red usually means 'post-office-red' to me not Dark Red, so I think it was sprayed Dark red.

The Caribbean graphics must mean something.
911thillclimber is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Mar 2012, 23:22 (Ref:3037308)   #1253
paulSenna
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
United Kingdom
London
Posts: 96
paulSenna should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Some S2000 races in 1981 were sponsored by Caribbean Airways I seem to remember.

Last edited by paulSenna; 8 Mar 2012 at 23:31.
paulSenna is offline  
__________________
24th May 1981, RAC championship race winner in Van Diemen RF81 - The first time I met the man.
Quote
Old 9 Mar 2012, 06:49 (Ref:3037386)   #1254
911thillclimber
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
West Midlands
Posts: 1,981
911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Thank you for your pm.

Paul has found on picture of some S2000's fighting it out and there are several cars from 1980 with 'Caribbean Airways' large stickers on the bodywork.

So this all exists.
Need to research those races and entry lists!

One 492 is red (not dark) more the tone of my current bodywork run by Bell & Colvill and driven by Peter Hall.

In 1980 this car was almost new, yet the car Paul had and was restored (my car) was "tatty" and needed a full re-build. This was before 1985 when it was sold to Len & Dennis.

Paul said the previous owner of the car had been killed racing or testing an Austin Healey. Does this ring bells?

911thillclimber is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Mar 2012, 11:02 (Ref:3037460)   #1255
Dan Rear
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location:
West Lancs
Posts: 2,026
Dan Rear should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Royal Caribbean is a cruise line still operating, I'm sure.

Caribbean Airways, I don't think is. However I've got a prog from Mallory 28-3-82, the meeting was the "Caribbean Airways Race Day". They specifically backed the
S2000 race, The Caribbean Airways Trophy, the trophy taking the form of a model DC10 (not a crashed one I hope!!). According to notes in the prog this was 'one of four meetings at MCD circuits this year, I guess 1 at each of Brands, Mallory, Snett and Oulton. The race was won by Fulmar Taylor's Royale from John Morrison's March.

There were 4 T492 entered as follows : Peter Newman from Redhill, Peter Hall from Bourne (Bell & Colvill), Chris Ashmore from Tipton, and John Tait from Wokingham. No colours quoted, though I recall the Hall car was red of some shade.

I hope some of this helps!
Dan Rear is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Mar 2012, 12:17 (Ref:3037478)   #1256
Nordic
Veteran
 
Nordic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
England
West Sussex
Posts: 2,133
Nordic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I would imagine the Bell car is the same one they later used in thundersports?

That was red but I think still racing when 911's car was sitting in a barn. i think I saw a picture of it a while back somewhere on this thread. I doubt a bell and colville car would ever be sold in such a bad state as discribed.

Odd fact, the bell and Colville car was entered in the Brands 6 hours in 1980, also in this race was Alan Humberstone!

http://www.racingsportscars.com/cove...980-03-16e.jpg

Last edited by Nordic; 9 Mar 2012 at 12:38.
Nordic is offline  
__________________
Some people will tell you that slow is good - and it may be, on some days - but I am here to tell you that fast is better.
H S Thompson 1937 - 2005
Quote
Old 9 Mar 2012, 14:19 (Ref:3037524)   #1257
paulSenna
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
United Kingdom
London
Posts: 96
paulSenna should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The Bell and Colvill car was first mentioned on this grand thread in post 60. Unless you've had a new roll over bar on your chassis, it's not yours. The Bell and Colvill car had additions to the bar to increase its height.
paulSenna is offline  
__________________
24th May 1981, RAC championship race winner in Van Diemen RF81 - The first time I met the man.
Quote
Old 9 Mar 2012, 15:17 (Ref:3037541)   #1258
Clive Brown
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
England
North-west Kent
Posts: 1,393
Clive Brown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I believe that the car went to 911thillclimber with a roll cage for a VW Karmann Ghia body fitted, so sadly, I don't think the raised roll hoop that the Bell and Colvill T492 had can offer us any clues.
Clive Brown is offline  
__________________
Columnated ruins domino
Quote
Old 9 Mar 2012, 16:15 (Ref:3037567)   #1259
paulSenna
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
United Kingdom
London
Posts: 96
paulSenna should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive Brown View Post
I believe that the car went to 911thillclimber with a roll cage for a VW Karmann Ghia body fitted, so sadly, I don't think the raised roll hoop that the Bell and Colvill T492 had can offer us any clues.
Ah yes, of course. This car is still in the frame to be the one! The Caribbean Airways sticker is a big clue here now.
paulSenna is offline  
__________________
24th May 1981, RAC championship race winner in Van Diemen RF81 - The first time I met the man.
Quote
Old 10 Mar 2012, 16:25 (Ref:3037959)   #1260
911thillclimber
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
West Midlands
Posts: 1,981
911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The Bell car is a 'post office red, and Paul said his Lola (my lola) was with a dark red body. He changed it to Orange to match the factory front.

The dark red could have been paint over something. Bit of a boring colour to paint a race car? Lola only did a 'red'.

The Caribbean airways is good because it shows the car was in England in 1982 and good enough to race in a good condition (it obviously passed scrutineers)

I think it was crashed. Either in the racing of 1982 or just after.
This would give the car 'time' to go downhill enough to need a full rebuild.

Paul said Owen fitted new side pods and the front body shell was obviously too far gone to repair, hence buying the new front end from the factory.

My car came to me from Mike Inglis with a new roll hoop middle and front ('dashboard') commissioned by Mike to Lola spec size, the Ghia body and hoop all scrapped just after he had it. Shame in many ways, because the front hoop sometimes were stamped with the chassis number !!!

Tony and John Sch must have removed them for the Ghia custom cage.

I have emailed Paul but no answers so far, will call him tomorrow (don't want to be a pest), but i think i need to go down to his place, get the old front body and get the engine back too or at least read the engine number.
Be nice to get the original engine for sure.(might end up with it in the car!)

If I can come back with the engine number and the spec sheet tallying then i have the evidence to claim the chassis number from Lola.

Oh so close now. Can this be true?

Be just my luck that the number is on someone else's car after all this work!

We must remember that someone took the chassis plate off this car after Tony/John's reworking.

You only do that to sell the plate or to 'lose' the car's id.

Through all this history, I do not sense that the car was stolen right along the line. I have had my doubts at times but not now.

I do think my car's plate is on a race car, what a dissapointment that will be.

Last edited by 911thillclimber; 10 Mar 2012 at 16:49.
911thillclimber is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Mar 2012, 23:25 (Ref:3038080)   #1261
911thillclimber
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
West Midlands
Posts: 1,981
911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
And another tweak!

Could be the owner previous to Paul came from Sayers Common, Sussex.
911thillclimber is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Mar 2012, 07:00 (Ref:3038172)   #1262
911thillclimber
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
West Midlands
Posts: 1,981
911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
And yet another tweak in the form of a massive email about the possible operation of the car in 82/83 ish.

Clive: pm with you.

Need to sort all the detail before any conclusions drawn, but the Bell & Colville car is getting some attention.
This red car raced in the Caribbean series, there is the pic to prove it, just who drove it then is the question.

Off to marshal at the Club's autotest today.
Lola getting fresh slicks at the insistance of Mrs Hillclimber and the car's first shake-down is in 2 weeks time.
No replies from Paul so far for the numbers!
911thillclimber is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Mar 2012, 14:25 (Ref:3038318)   #1263
paulSenna
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
United Kingdom
London
Posts: 96
paulSenna should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Martin Colvill would be the man to tell you who drove his car. Some races were two driver races at that time so Martin, Peter Hall or A.N.other could be the ones.
paulSenna is offline  
__________________
24th May 1981, RAC championship race winner in Van Diemen RF81 - The first time I met the man.
Quote
Old 11 Mar 2012, 16:19 (Ref:3038352)   #1264
Nordic
Veteran
 
Nordic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
England
West Sussex
Posts: 2,133
Nordic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Did bell and colvill own the car or did Pete Hall? They sure got their money worths out of it. S2000, 6 hour races and thundersports.

Hall was still entering races in a Lola as late as 83. Did he maybe buy it from them?

Sayers common is close to Brighton, and where I live. Rob creswell was running cars from that area. Don't think he ever raced sports 2000, but he may have traded it or prep'ed it for another local.

Looked thu some old programs for that era and can't see any driver in any class listed from sayers common. But I am sure I have seen one somewhere. Local drivers always stuck in my mind!
Nordic is offline  
__________________
Some people will tell you that slow is good - and it may be, on some days - but I am here to tell you that fast is better.
H S Thompson 1937 - 2005
Quote
Old 11 Mar 2012, 18:40 (Ref:3038413)   #1265
911thillclimber
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
West Midlands
Posts: 1,981
911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
All these addresses are in and around the Brighton larger area.
It must have been a hot-bed of racers for sure!

I hope Paul will reply to my emails soon or i will call him to arrange to go down and get the front body which should have a race number on it, hence the driver/entrant can be found, but above all the engine number and the car spec sheet with all the gear ratios etc on it must take me to the chassis the engine is from.
I have the Lola factory reference sheets with engine/box numbers to every chassis.

From the body in dark red we can find the true gel colour too.

It will be a few weeks before i can get down to the 'farm'
911thillclimber is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Mar 2012, 19:08 (Ref:3038427)   #1266
XRS
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
United Kingdom
Sussex coast
Posts: 61
XRS should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I bought a modsports sprite back in 1975 from a mushroom farmer at Henfield, but his name was Paul Burton. Don't know if this helps, I have an address and company name.
XRS is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Mar 2012, 22:33 (Ref:3038535)   #1267
911thillclimber
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
West Midlands
Posts: 1,981
911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Thanks XRS, but I know the Paul who had the farm where he sold my Lola from, just need to call/contact him to get down there without making a pest of myself and my impatience!
911thillclimber is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Mar 2012, 16:30 (Ref:3038896)   #1268
Clive Brown
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
England
North-west Kent
Posts: 1,393
Clive Brown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It is most likely that the car was sold by Lola Cars Limited in 1978, so therefore it was around seven years old when Dennis bought it (from Paul?) in 1985. Whilst we cannot assume that the front Paul still has was that with which the car originally came from Lola, it will be interesting to see just what colour the gel coat has. Is the 'dark red' a sprayed paint finish, or is it Lola standard red?

If it's not a stock Lola colour, then surely someone on this Forum will be able to point us towards a dark red Lola in S2000/Thundersports/C2 competition.

Clearly, to take things forward Graham needs to get down to Pyecombe ASAP!
Clive Brown is offline  
__________________
Columnated ruins domino
Quote
Old 13 Mar 2012, 20:11 (Ref:3040516)   #1269
911thillclimber
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
West Midlands
Posts: 1,981
911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Following a call today to Paul I now have the Chassis number off the data sheet!

Before I reveal it I need to find the owners from Paul in 85 back to the original buyer of the car now I know who it is by name.(but I know nothing about him).

Still things to search out, but quite a turning point to say the least.

Paul will let me have the front body too so i can get down to gel coat and check the colour etc.

He does not have the original engine, but did modify it and sold with the Lola to Alan Humberstone who removed it, possibly to a road car.

We are not out of these woods yet!

911thillclimber is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Mar 2012, 20:41 (Ref:3040534)   #1270
SAMD
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,523
SAMD should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSAMD should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by 911thillclimber View Post
Following a call today to Paul I now have the Chassis number off the data sheet!

Before I reveal it I need to find the owners from Paul in 85 back to the original buyer of the car now I know who it is by name.(but I know nothing about him).

Still things to search out, but quite a turning point to say the least.

Paul will let me have the front body too so i can get down to gel coat and check the colour etc.

He does not have the original engine, but did modify it and sold with the Lola to Alan Humberstone who removed it, possibly to a road car.

We are not out of these woods yet!

Why do you keep driving under the trats sign?
SAMD is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Mar 2012, 22:20 (Ref:3040616)   #1271
911thillclimber
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
West Midlands
Posts: 1,981
911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Maybe it should start with a 'P' in my case.
You can see the engine 'opening' its 3 bores up....

The gearbox went AWOL about the same time too..

Will be doing the practice day weekend after this one. It will feel a bit strange starting the season and a bit apprehensive about the season lasting.

Fresh slicks, new overalls and new shoes even
911thillclimber is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Mar 2012, 11:53 (Ref:3041451)   #1272
haggispeed
Racer
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
United Kingdom
near Oulton Park
Posts: 289
haggispeed has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 911thillclimber View Post
Following a call today to Paul I now have the Chassis number off the data sheet!
When do we get to know Graham.....
haggispeed is offline  
__________________
don't lift, don't lift, don't lift - damn you lifted again !! never will get those tyres hot...
Quote
Old 15 Mar 2012, 22:28 (Ref:3041849)   #1273
911thillclimber
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
West Midlands
Posts: 1,981
911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Tony: you have a pm!

It has been suggested an owner could be Robert Parker.
Any contacts for Robert please?
911thillclimber is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Mar 2012, 22:54 (Ref:3041867)   #1274
wolfhound
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Ireland
Posts: 3,553
wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
A Robert Palmer raced a T492 at the Brands Hatch 6 hours in 1980 where he finished 15th this would have needed a long range fuel tank. I have no chassis details.
wolfhound is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Mar 2012, 05:53 (Ref:3042016)   #1275
911thillclimber
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
West Midlands
Posts: 1,981
911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid911thillclimber should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Thank you; every bit of detail counts.

I'm beginning to think this car does not have a long range tank.

It is not a bag tank, a sheet alum tank that has been made to fill the void behind the seat but not the full width of the rear bulkhead. It is short by about 300mm, the space being right behind the driver's seat.

I think there is research needed on the purchaser of the car, Preslerwear/ J. Sadler.
911thillclimber is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
searching Lola T492 rear brake disc dr46rossi Motorsport History 2 24 Nov 2009 17:27


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.