[Team] Red Bull: Unbullievable

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Probably should have left it at that.

[S griffin]

Well let’s just see how the internal investigation goes today, see if it actually achieves anything

[broadrun96]

And it appears it will be kicked down the road a bit longer. When you hear things like "the complexities of legal process" and careful examination of responses you start to wonder which way it's leaning but middling ain't it. Someone is getting run through the coals and I'm thinking it's gonna be how much they owe the victim and how much are they responsible for a hostile workplace. OR they can find holes and want to make a proper and legal this is why no action response.

But either way, it's not happening until after the Bahrain weekend so that's plenty of time for the media vacuum to make more things up and spin a yarn

[chillibowl]

they certainly are using a lot of legal type phrasing to describe this process...actually sounds more like a deposition in anticipation of actual criminal or civil proceedings to follow. i have no idea tho, not a lawyer, but i do watch TV shows about lawyers lol

but yeah, i also get the sense that this will be a protracted process.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Well let’s just see how the internal investigation goes today, see if it actually achieves anything

Serious question. Are we even expecting to hear any results from today? I sort of feel like there is an expectation that some "judgement" one way or another is going to come out of today when I haven't see anything that indicates that?

Richard

[S griffin]

Well as no one knows for sure what exactly they are investigating, it’s hard to tell. I’d give it a couple of days at most before we here anything

[HDTVKSS]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

they certainly are using a lot of legal type phrasing to describe this process...actually sounds more like a deposition in anticipation of actual criminal or civil proceedings to follow. i have no idea tho, not a lawyer, but i do watch TV shows about lawyers lol

but yeah, i also get the sense that this will be a protracted process.

I would suggest it more sounds like mediation/arbitration which is the go to esp for large corporations keep things out of the public court system.

[bjohnsonsmith]

The BBC are reporting the hearing has ended without resolution.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68257388

[S griffin]

Well no surprise there. Wonder if the truth will ever come out or not? Or if this will be swept under the carpet for good?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Well no surprise there. Wonder if the truth will ever come out or not? Or if this will be swept under the carpet for good?

I think that you maybe misunderstood the article; the matter has not been dropped because the enquiries continues and the articles wonders whether there will be answers before the car launch tomorrow or even by the time of the first race.

And while enquiries continue, no-one involved will (or is unlikely to) make any comment on the matter.

[Peter Mallett]

The problem for Horner may be that notwithstanding the outcome, as a result of the world we live in, he's probably out of a job anyway. The car launch may well see him absent.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

The problem for Horner may be that notwithstanding the outcome, as a result of the world we live in, he's probably out of a job anyway. The car launch may well see him absent.

I guess a lot will depend on the truth of his relationship with the RB bosses.

As to the case, I have heard there is precious little real evidence.

[Peter Mallett]

Indeed, but I'm thinking Liberty Media won't like this no matter what the outcome.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

As to the case, I have heard there is precious little real evidence.

The investigation is being reported to Red Bull GmbH, not the F1 team. Paddock 'insiders' would not be privy to the evidence, and those who have real knowledge of the case would not be permitted to comment while proceedings are ongoing.

So your claim sounds like a fabrication.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

The investigation is being reported to Red Bull GmbH, not the F1 team. Paddock 'insiders' would not be privy to the evidence, and those who have real knowledge of the case would not be permitted to comment while proceedings are ongoing.

So your claim sounds like a fabrication.

Yes, the hundreds of employees are hardly likely to talk about it are they.

I said "I'd heard" so clearly not presenting it as established fact.

But whether the Austrians want to keep him or not is likely key, as I also said.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Indeed, but I'm thinking Liberty Media won't like this no matter what the outcome.

By the time the season is underway, I think it will be ''forgotten''.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Yes, the hundreds of employees are hardly likely to talk about it are they.

nice to know people over there like to speculate as much as we fans do!

on the serious tho, given that they think there is a lack of evidence, or that is what is believed by those you have been talking to, are they inclined to think this is more of a power struggle/attempt to oust Horner issue rather than a legitimate claim? are people taking sides? is it affecting sponsor relations?

to move forward with this with a lack of evidence at the onset of a new season perhaps raises even more question?

anyways, RB out on track today doing some promo filming it seems (wonder if Horner is there)... if the car is another killer maybe all will actually be forgotten?

[Richard C]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bu...or-rb20-launch

Horner reported to be at the launch. Also, the prior reports that BE said that Horner should step down are not accurate per direct comment from BE. I tend to think the longer this drags on and with Horner at the launch the less likely this will result in him leaving RBR. Even if he leaves I don't see some type of implosion and exodus of staff.

Note, I have no opinion one way or another as to what is going on. It is all just a bunch of speculation with not many public facts.

Richard

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Richard C

https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bu...or-rb20-launch

Horner reported to be at the launch. Also, the prior reports that BE said that Horner should step down are not accurate per direct comment from BE. I tend to think the longer this drags on and with Horner at the launch the less likely this will result in him leaving RBR. Even if he leaves I don't see some type of implosion and exodus of staff.

Note, I have no opinion one way or another as to what is going on. It is all just a bunch of speculation with not many public facts.

Richard

Thanks for posting the link and your thoughts Richard. To be honest, as much as I personally dislike Christian Horner (only from what I've seen him say, and read in the press things that he has said), I do have to admire what Red Bull have achieved, and as the boss, he can take a lot of credit for that. For the same reasons I am not a fan of the team as I don't think that they play things totally fair in a sporting manner.
However, if this whole affair can be proven to be a storm in a teacup and/or some sort of misguided internal power struggle I hope that he does keep his job (as without him The Team wouldn't be as strong as they are now) and that the real culprits are named & shamed. There are a lot of people employed within the organisation who do work hard, and do deserve to keep their jobs.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Thanks for posting the link and your thoughts Richard. To be honest, as much as I personally dislike Christian Horner (only from what I've seen him say, and read in the press things that he has said), I do have to admire what Red Bull have achieved, and as the boss, he can take a lot of credit for that. For the same reasons I am not a fan of the team as I don't think that they play things totally fair in a sporting manner.
However, if this whole affair can be proven to be a storm in a teacup and/or some sort of misguided internal power struggle I hope that he does keep his job (as without him The Team wouldn't be as strong as they are now) and that the real culprits are named & shamed. There are a lot of people employed within the organisation who do work hard, and do deserve to keep their jobs.

I absolutely agree with you on all of that.

I see the article quoted by Richard says that CH is working as normal at Milton Keynes. He may be trying to but I doubt it's really possible. First he is going to be spending a lot of time working on his defence and not on his normal duties. Secondly, even when he is trying to do his normal job his brain is bound to be distracted and not functioning at 100%. To some degree (great or small) that cannot be a good thing for RBR.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

I absolutely agree with you on all of that.

I see the article quoted by Richard says that CH is working as normal at Milton Keynes. He may be trying to but I doubt it's really possible. First he is going to be spending a lot of time working on his defence and not on his normal duties. Secondly, even when he is trying to do his normal job his brain is bound to be distracted and not functioning at 100%. To some degree (great or small) that cannot be a good thing for RBR.

To add to content that is floating around in the F1 media space. The outside attorney that was handling the investigation and whatever "interview" (or whatever you want to call it) that happened last Friday has reportedly gone on vacation (I can't imagine they would select someone who had a pre-arranged vacation and said "I will finish it up when I get back"). The implied implication is that his investigation is done and that he has handed off a report to Red Bull. So if that is accurate then it is at the point of internal discussion and haggling on what to do or not do.

I have read elsewhere that it is more of the Yoovidhya (Thai) than the Mateschitz (Austrian) side of Red Bull that support Horner. While the Yoovidhya family owns 51%, there is also reports that they have either sold some of that off, or maybe split that apart internally within their family with that resulting in Mark Mateschitz being the single largest shareholder at 49%. Who is making the hard decisions at Red Bull? Make of that as you will. Again, all rumors that is floating around and might be quite inaccurate.

At the end of the day, I suspect that whatever is going it, it might not have been a clear cut situation that facilitates being quickly cleared or not. Or maybe they do know what they want to do, but are working out details. If Horner is out, then likely negotiation for compensation with him so that he doesn't response with legal action. If Horner is in (but there was some less than idea activity happening), how is Horner to be "coached" to be a better boss in the future. Another variation of Horner remains, do they need to settle with any complainants. Again, I think Horner being present at the recent photo day running and scheduled for the launch is telling. Either he is staying or he is digging his heals in to make it hard to push him out.

Richard

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

The investigation is being reported to Red Bull GmbH, not the F1 team. Paddock 'insiders' would not be privy to the evidence, and those who have real knowledge of the case would not be permitted to comment while proceedings are ongoing.

So your claim sounds like a fabrication.

In answer to your conclusion, the answer could be yes.

But the complaint was made to the parent company, not to RBR itself.

So my question is, in view of the information coming from the Netherland's; is the situation motivated by aggravation in the CH-JV situation, and if so, if there is no real evidence or if it is inconsistent, it would allow Horner to claim against the parent organization if in future he was able to establish innocence.
Of course, if he was dismissed there would probably be a large severance agreement as per his contract.

The fact that it is not in the courts and is handled privately so far creates an impression that the evidence is either cloudy or not fully established, or that the parent body wants it all outside the legal system unless there is incontrovertible evidence.

If it can be established that the whole incident is malicious in motivation, then there could be a huge kickback toward the complainant.

[Akrapovic]

Dutch news is reporting that it is indeed a sexual harassment issue and that an offer has been made to settle with the victim.

Not sounding amazing for Ginger Spices husband.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Dutch news is reporting that it is indeed a sexual harassment issue and that an offer has been made to settle with the victim.

Not sounding amazing for Ginger Spices husband.

The settlement offer (or at least the querying of it) seems to have been the one line of questioning that was shut down at the press conference:

"Had any deal been offered to the complainant to shut the complaint down, Horner was asked?

"Let's not go on with that," the spokesperson said."

[chillibowl]

where do British labour laws/authorities fit into this? will they conduct their own investigation?

our Labour Boards/employee protection agencies here are not required to investigate unless an employee makes a claim directly to them but they have been known to look at things out of 'public interest' when allegations hit the news papers/the wider public becomes aware.