[Team] Red Bull: Unbullievable

[Mike Harte]

As far as I am aware, authorities could look at what is a private matter, even though it is in the public arena, however, if the "claimant" is unwilling to make a criminal complaint, or a complaint to the relevant authority, it would go no-where.

I would assume that if the "claimant" accepts a settlement then that settlement would also include a non disclosure agreement.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

As far as I am aware, authorities could look at what is a private matter, even though it is in the public arena, however, if the "claimant" is unwilling to make a criminal complaint, or a complaint to the relevant authority, it would go no-where.

I would assume that if the "claimant" accepts a settlement then that settlement would also include a non disclosure agreement.

This is my understanding as well.

Of course Red Bull (parent company) could still remove Horner from his position.

[TWRv12]

Bit disturbing that DeTelegraaf have seen copies of the messages! How can that be legal?

£650k offered?

Horner probably ok since RB 51% shareholder backs him and Liberty are a bit MAGA, previously had no problem employing someone from the board of company that probably broke world records for harassment payouts.

https://www.corriere.it/sport/formul...655a4ad2.shtml

https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/70913...rijdend-gedrag

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

Bit disturbing that DeTelegraaf have seen copies of the messages! How can that be legal?

If they really have seen some of the messages (could just be media being "economical with the truth") it's possible that the complainant provided them to the newspaper I guess - nothing illegal in that.

That is of course assuming that there ARE any messages and that the newspaper HAS actually seen them.

I don't know Horner any more than most do - have only seen him via telecasts etc. and I'd be really surprised if he'd been silly enough to do the whole (allegedly) suggestive texting thing. I can definitely see him being a demanding and driven boss, expecting nothing but the best from everyone and maybe going at someone pretty hard if he felt they weren't putting in.

Not sure that we'll ever truly know what exactly went down here but we may know more once the process plays out within Red Bull.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Tourer

I'd be really surprised if he'd been silly enough to do the whole (allegedly) suggestive texting thing.

You would think that, but I have personally watched smart, powerful and wealthy people actively letting the wrong part of their anatomy make damning decisions for them. I would say the biggest factor in why they think they can do it is an oversized sense of their level of power in addition to being surrounded with people who enforced that power drunk mindset.

Originally Posted by Tourer

Not sure that we'll ever truly know what exactly went down here but we may know more once the process plays out within Red Bull.

Agree we may never know. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Richard

[Alan52]

On to the racing and Mark Hughes says the new car is radically different to last years and if they have made that decision expect Max/Red Bull to be even more dominant this year.If that is possible.

[P38 in workshop]

It might be unwise to read too much into the appearance of the first shown car.There is almost a sub-department that produces "car launch" versions of bodywork which are never seen again.The car on the grid for the first race may be significantly different.Did I see Walmart as one of this year's sponsors or have they decided that the average F1 viewer isn't too close to the demographics of their typical customer?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

It might be unwise to read too much into the appearance of the first shown car.There is almost a sub-department that produces "car launch" versions of bodywork which are never seen again.The car on the grid for the first race may be significantly different.Did I see Walmart as one of this year's sponsors or have they decided that the average F1 viewer isn't too close to the demographics of their typical customer?

Walmart aren't listed as a partner on their website. The list is near the bottom of the page. https://www.redbullracing.com/int-en

[crmalcolm]

https://www.redbullracing.com/int-en...t-team-partner
They've been a partner since 2021.


https://www.redbull.com/us-en/projects/pit-stop-2023

In 2024, winners of a competition ran in Walmart stores will attend the US GP as a prize.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

https://www.redbullracing.com/int-en...t-team-partner
They've been a partner since 2021.


https://www.redbull.com/us-en/projects/pit-stop-2023

In 2024, winners of a competition ran in Walmart stores will attend the US GP as a prize.

Why aren't they listed as a partner on the RBR website?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Why aren't they listed as a partner on the RBR website?

https://www.redbullracing.com/int-en/partners

Scroll through, they are listed.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

https://www.redbullracing.com/int-en/partners

Scroll through, they are listed.

So they are but odd they aren't on this list.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

So they are but odd they aren't on this list.

Walmart isn't the only partner missing from the bottom of the home page.
There are different tiers of partner, not all get a front page credit.

[Tourer]

A blue & yellow Mercedes? If Autosport is right, and RBR does indeed go further down the "zero pod" route, it'll make for a really interesting sub story in 2024.

Might end up being a critical mistake on Red Bull's part, but if it works, what does that then say about Mercedes in comparison? Fascinating and actually kinda cool.

[chillibowl]

right! one pictures Newey about this time last year working hard to understand what Merc were up to and now him and his team are back with an evolved better packaged version of it one year later!

curious where Merc left off with their designs, had they completely abandoned it, and/or are they now back to it having to work out just what RB are up to?

fascinating stuff indeed!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Looking at last year's Mercedes W14 and this year's RB20, as well the side pods, it would seem RB have continued with what Mercedes were doing to the engine cover and airbox.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Looking at last year's Mercedes W14 and this year's RB20, as well the side pods, it would seem RB have continued with what Mercedes were doing to the engine cover and airbox.

Yes, it will be interesting to see if the RB execution of the concept is less flawed. Benefit of hindsight and all that.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by E.B

Yes, it will be interesting to see if the RB execution of the concept is less flawed. Benefit of hindsight and all that.

Or it’s one brilliant spoof to get every team at it!

[Richard C]

I tend to think that the Mercedes minimal sidepods was not bad concept when viewed in isolation. Given that Red Bull is looking to do something similar to what Mercedes tried leads me to believe that the true secret sauce for Red Bull is elsewhere and not incompatible with a minimal sidepod solution. So maybe this brings the benefits of both together? It will be interesting to see where teams are in the first few races. I think testing as usually might show who is having issues (reliability and maybe performance), but may not show true speed of whoever is quickest.

Richard

[Mike Harte]

Lest we forget, that it was the RB team that only a few years ago barely put in a few laps in the pre-season tests, yet we are now entering a season when they have run away with the championship for two years running.

My fear is that Newey may have waved his magic wand again but over this year's car, and they will leave everyone else in their exhaust fumes!

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Lest we forget, that it was the RB team that only a few years ago barely put in a few laps in the pre-season tests, yet we are now entering a season when they have run away with the championship for two years running.

My fear is that Newey may have waved his magic wand again but over this year's car, and they will leave everyone else in their exhaust fumes!

I tend to think that testing these days is a bit of shakedown plus aero correlation and maybe a few other things. In short, if you are not having early issues that are preventing track time, you just run through your program and you may never need to show your hand with respect to ultimate performance.

I think it will be interesting to see what happens in testing, but I would not try to read too deeply into lap times.

Richard

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by Tourer

I don't know Horner any more than most do - have only seen him via telecasts etc. and I'd be really surprised if he'd been silly enough to do the whole (allegedly) suggestive texting thing. I can definitely see him being a demanding and driven boss, expecting nothing but the best from everyone and maybe going at someone pretty hard if he felt they weren't putting in.

Not sure that we'll ever truly know what exactly went down here but we may know more once the process plays out within Red Bull.

I would imagine every F1 team is a super-intensive working environment and everyone is put under pressure. If some snowflake finds he/she can't take that pressure, it's easy to come up with the sort of complaint that we think is at the root of this story.

Originally Posted by Tourer

If Autosport is right, and RBR does indeed go further down the "zero pod" route, it'll make for a really interesting sub story in 2024.

Might end up being a critical mistake on Red Bull's part, but if it works, what does that then say about Mercedes in comparison? Fascinating and actually kinda cool.

Mercedes were sure the zero-pod was the way to go, but they just couldn't make it work. It wouldn't surprise me if Adrian Newey didn't look at it and think "Brilliant idea, but they doing it all wrong and I can do it right." In which case we can look forward to RBR disappearing into the distance again and Mercedes wiping the egg off their faces. On the other hand, we might see RBR falling flat on their face. Not long to wait now.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

I would imagine every F1 team is a super-intensive working environment and everyone is put under pressure. If some snowflake finds he/she can't take that pressure, it's easy to come up with the sort of complaint that we think is at the root of this story.

Oof. "Snowflake", really? That's a disappointing turn of phrase.

There's a major difference between being in a high pressure working environment and the sort of behaviour that's been reported. There's plenty more that could be said about Horner's past behaviour but I'll leave that. For now.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

I would imagine every F1 team is a super-intensive working environment and everyone is put under pressure. If some snowflake finds he/she can't take that pressure, it's easy to come up with the sort of complaint that we think is at the root of this story.

I know exactly what you mean. Work can be stressful. And sometimes you need a release. Nothing is more inconsiderate than a subordinate complaining about my need for them gaze admiringly at photo of my junk or listen to my sexual fantasies about them. Clearly they are not a team player.

Seriously, I have seen people who have taken an opportunity to grab a payout in a bit of a cynical way, but I have also seen many more situations in which someone does act inappropriately and those on the receiving end probably try to just deal with it. Not to mention that pulling the trigger on even a legitimate complaint is likely to stigmatize someone long term. I think most don't make accusations lightly and without there being some merit. Also, "boys will be boys" stuff from decades ago, is no longer something you can or should do.

I don't know what I hope for in this exactly. Maybe that justice is served in which ever direction is applicable.

Richard

[Akrapovic]

I always send d*ck pics to female colleagues when I'm under pressure from senior management. It's how I cope, as a man.