BMW staying in F1 - but where?

Wrex · 7 May 2003, 04:36 (Ref:591907)

Quote:

from grandprix.com
BMW has finally confirmed that it will stay in Formula 1 in 2005 and beyond and is also understood to have rejected the idea of building its own car but negotiations to extend the current deal with Williams are still going on with Sir Frank Williams and Dr. Mario Theissen spending many hours locked in meetings at the Spanish Grand Prix.

"We will continue beyond 2004 in F1," Theissen said. "This has been agreed already by the board. What we are now talking about is not if, but how, to continue. The ultimate goal is to be competitive, to get into a position to win the championship."

Williams is well aware of the weaknesses of its current package but the team continues to work to improve the car and strengthen its engineering staff.

Hmmm, staying in F1 - good news indeed.

Not building own car - moronic mistake averted.

But which team? Sticking with Williams seems to be the obvious choice, so what exactly are they 'negotiating'? Money? That does'nt make sence.

A performance clause or (lack of) exclusivity is more likely. Any ideas?

**Peter Mallett** · 7 May 2003, 05:20 (Ref:591912)

What they need is a chassis designer who can complement their engine. Where's Gustav Brunner these days?

GTV27 · 7 May 2003, 05:28 (Ref:591917)

maybe the debate is about supply of engines to other teams - to put the pressure on Williams to produce a car that handles....if Mercedes and maybe BMW open up the engine supplies then maybe well get back to the halcyon days of 24 - 26 teams?

f1manoz · 7 May 2003, 08:48 (Ref:592065)

BMW won't be going anywhere as there is no other team on the grid with resources available for BMW to win consistently.

Williams have just designed a poor car. Once they finally do a good one, BMW won't be complaining!

Gunslinger · 7 May 2003, 08:58 (Ref:592077)

Quote:

get back to the halcyon days of 24 - 26 teams

That would be awesome.

Not building their onw chassis is indeed a mistake averted. BMW/Williams had a reputedly fine car last year, and when compared to the oppositon, it looked even better in 2001? Some of their misfortunes would be the old story of "bad luck mate". Looking quick at Paul Ricard, but Sir Willaims had bad luck there in 86.

BMW/Minardi would be great!

but what about Honda? Or Renault and Judd even? Only Sir Frank know's his agenda (do you reckon he enjoys racing?) but personally i'd like to see a Honda planted in a improved chassis again. BMW are great, always will be.

Another plus is Montoya. As long as he stays with Williams. Be a bugger for the team to lose him to...Ferrari? Montoya is a future champ for sure.

Back to the topic, 2005 is only 2 years away, but there's gonna be a whole lotta changing going on. (did i type that?)

Armco Bender · 7 May 2003, 09:02 (Ref:592082)

Quote:

so what exactly are they 'negotiating'? Money?

A big chunk of Williams shares no doubt,if your going to put that amount of money into a project you want some long term controlling interest in it.

Smokey 6 litre · 7 May 2003, 09:06 (Ref:592087)

Quote:

Originally posted by f1manoz

Williams have just designed a poor car. Once they finally do a good one, BMW won't be complaining!

But BMW will want a good car soon, and that williams looks like it needs A LOT of work to make it fast enough, even with a BMW lump in the back.

Logrence · 7 May 2003, 11:02 (Ref:592211)

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
What they need is a chassis designer who can complement their engine. Where's Gustav Brunner these days?

Knocking around doing a terrible job at Toyota. I had really high hopes when he moved from Minardi...

shiny side up! · 7 May 2003, 12:22 (Ref:592307)

BMW have repeatedly said that would have a very difficult time supplying other customer teams, and certainly they couldn't do it for the $10mil Bernie price benchmark... so if they keep only one team, and don't do the chassis themselves, Williams is the only top team for them to work with. I would expect that the negotiations are ongoing about how much control BMW is going to have over the Williams team and chassis design...

Mark Webber · 7 May 2003, 12:42 (Ref:592326)

BMW / Sauber ? that would be a good pairing any thing is better that williams

**Bononi** · 7 May 2003, 17:17 (Ref:592586)

Oh... or maybe a BMW Jordan ?

kmchow · 7 May 2003, 17:58 (Ref:592634)

Quote:

Originally posted by shiny side up!
BMW have repeatedly said that would have a very difficult time supplying other customer teams, and certainly they couldn't do it for the $10mil Bernie price benchmark...

That depends on what BMW expects. Are they expecting to supply engines on a loss, cost or profit basis. It seems Bernie wants the manufacturers to do it on a loss basis. Would $20M US be a fairer compromise. Could one argue the manufacturers should accept the losses they incur on customer engines to be part of the cost of F1 racing?

Alternatively, if manufacturers were forced to supply customer engines, would they take as much care in ensuring they run reliably?? Heck, it's not a Works team engine anyways? Would they suppply engines that break down constantly? Or would manufacturer pride keep them from supplying poor reliability engines?

**Adam43** · 7 May 2003, 18:01 (Ref:592639)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Webber
BMW / Sauber ? that would be a good pairing any thing is better that williams

If Sauber change from Ferrari, doesn't the strongest rumour at the moment indicate it will be for Mercedes?

It is clearly unlikely that a Sauber BMW would be better than a Williams BMW and I don't have a problem with Williams-BMW being partners (and I am no fan of BMW).

RWC · 8 May 2003, 16:58 (Ref:593715)

As some have allready said-they're negotiating how much control they can get at williams for a variety of reasons.
Most importantly they NEED a better car!!!
But they would also like to have the kudos of being known for being responsable for that better car-i.e the name 'BMW williams'(in that order) comes to mind....

shiny side up! · 8 May 2003, 17:14 (Ref:593730)

I should think that 'BMW Williams' would go over fine. Frank and Patrick must know that the BMW engine is the class of the field, as surely as they must admit that their chassis is not on par with Ferrari, Renault, and McLaren. They had best keep BMW happy, or they'll end up with an inferior chassis AND engine in the future and end up in the lower half of the grid...

Tristan · 8 May 2003, 17:52 (Ref:593793)

Hows about BMW taking over Sauber to call it BMW á la Benetton/Renault?? In that sense, are they "building their own car" or not??

It's a rumour...

shiny side up! · 8 May 2003, 18:00 (Ref:593808)

Even if you don't call it 'building their own car', there is a pretty steep learning curve ahead for Sauber (or BMW...I'm so confused...) should that happen. They certainly don't have one of the better chassis right now, especially if the rumours that the entire rear end of that car is supplied by Ferrari are true... BMW would still be faced with a couple of years of results that are no better than what they're getting now...

Hugh Jarce · 9 May 2003, 09:53 (Ref:594325)

Perhaps this could be the problem with the Williams chassis.

Look what it's made out of!

http://www.lego.com/eng/racers/willi.../teamracer.asp

golem · 9 May 2003, 13:06 (Ref:594531)

Hmm, better aero... more reliable, cheaper.

**Bononi** · 9 May 2003, 13:11 (Ref:594538)

They're improving !!!

BootsOntheSide · 9 May 2003, 13:18 (Ref:594550)

Clearly this is great engine, comaprable to the Ferrari and probably ahead of everything else including Mercedes, and is being wasted in the Williams, and has been for the last 3 years. It will be galling for the BMW top brass to see Mercedes at the front, especially as it's mroe down to McLaren and Kimi Raikkonen.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are several teams queuing to have works BMW engines. It'll be out of Minardi's price range, and probably Jordan's, and Sauber's chassis could be the worst out there, and is unlikely to be good advertising for them even if it would be an All-Germanic team.

Tristan · 9 May 2003, 13:43 (Ref:594579)

I'm not sure if it's a question of "buying" the BMW. It'll be free like it is to Willaims.

JohnSSC · 10 May 2003, 00:04 (Ref:595011)

So as Sir Frank and BMW "negotiate," Renault just goes out and performs.

Except for the odd eruption from Flav, you hear little from Renault as they move to the front of the grid. Meanwhile we hear lots from Williams as they soldier on bravely in a car that needs "developed."

I wonder...

Tristan · 10 May 2003, 00:22 (Ref:595021)

It's funny - if anything it's the Renault engine dept. that is the weak point of their team. The Benetton boys can build a chassis. At Williams it's the other way around - the engine's a beast yet the chassis this year especially looks like it's a constant battle. Conclusions??

Amaroo Park · 10 May 2003, 10:58 (Ref:595252)

So where do BMW go if not Williams, the other options in signing an agreement with another team or buying a team aren't good. They should stay with Williams

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