Steel Cranks for FF1600

[ff90]

As with all things you have to start somewhere. In the past the BRSCC had the dominant FF1600 racing presence/reg drivers/championships etc and for all the other championships I contacted they all said they would wait for the BRSCC to move first then follow/discuss etc.

Now the rest of the world has moved and the BRSCC looks like it is too then I'm sure the rest will very, very quickly follow but we should all wait for the official announcement.

[Triple J Motorsport]

Shame no one ordered a shipment of cranks when there was $2 to £1....

[Redracer77]

Maybe Skyford did and that is why they are now changing

[dikko]

Originally Posted by ff90

It has been long acknowledged that the crank offers no performance advantage and has always been about a choice.

Certainly less to think about than the Historic cars having +20' and pattern piston engines.

er, that'll be Classics maybe, Historics run standard bore.
Look forward to official announcement, sense has come to those that matter and my wallet has just sighed from relief.

[SCOBER11]

Nice one, now that my two engines have been rebuilt with the jelly crank i get to send them back for a scat crank and just in time for the recession!

[SAMD]

Forgive me for not researching this, but why is the specification of the crankshaft being changed to one that is just a bit better.
Can the powers that be not just say "crankshaft material free".
I may be speaking prematurely here, but from what little knowledge I have, a Scat cast crank will not be as strong as a forged steel crank or a billit steel crank, or what about a Nissan one from the clubman guys that is good for about 200 bhp.
Surely we are at the stage when longevity/cost are the main priorities and we should be going for the best stuff available, or are internal politics still the order of the day.

[ff90]

The original intention was to get like for like crank, better made which would last a lot longer with out being to expensive (the scat crank was cheaper than the standard at one point).

A full steel crank would cost at least 3/4 times as much and is much heavier than the cast steel alternative.

Not sure what the clubman’s now use, “Nissan one?” thought some classes still use the standard item although they have lightened the flywheel a lot for this season to try to help etc

[JEB]

Following a meeting at the MSA in November it was agreed that cranks would stay 'as is'.
I have had no conversation with others since regarding the decision we all came to.
If different classes allow different regulations, in my opinion, that is not good. Everyone should be united otherwise who know what the outcome will be. The WHT runs to regulations as laid down by the Ford Motor Company for FF1600 that uses the 420kg weight limit as well.

[SAMD]

I can appreciate the original intention alright, if it had been a simple thing to change the regs. that would have been fine. Its just that after the blood sweat and tears that have been shed in order to get to this point, (assuming we ARE at this point) it seems a bit of an anticlimax to get a crankshaft that is "a bit better".

My reference to the Nissan crank was from a bit I read on a clubman site from a chap who had his own machine shop. I think there was a Nissan model which used a forged crank that could be modified to suit the Kent block/rods. I doubt if there is any mileage (sic) in going that route, but if the change to the regs. was Crankshaft "free" then it would be up to the people who run the cars to decide what to do.

[StephenRae]

Originally Posted by JEB

Following a meeting at the MSA in November it was agreed that cranks would stay 'as is'.
I have had no conversation with others since regarding the decision we all came to.
If different classes allow different regulations, in my opinion, that is not good. Everyone should be united otherwise who know what the outcome will be. The WHT runs to regulations as laid down by the Ford Motor Company for FF1600 that uses the 420kg weight limit as well.

Hello James...There is no doubt that you have the best interests of FF1600 at heart. The rest of the world has adopted a better crank to improve reliability and thus prolong the longevity of the formulae, isn't this in everyones interest....perhaps even especially yours?

[JohnMiller]

How can they change the regs when half of the grid have already had their engines rebuilt for 2009?

[ff90]

It might go against the grain, but people will eventually vote with their feet and I hear quite a few cranks have already been fitted.

If your out for fun, understand the like of like principle, have to pay for your own engine you might be only left with your conscience, why not to have a choice?

They banned electric water pumps, just before the season started.

[Triple J Motorsport]

That's why it's optional John, so you can fit one at the next build

[JohnMiller]

The BRSCC season ends in October and starts at the beginning of April. How can they announce this so late?

If the cranks weigh different, how can it not be an advantage?

[ff90]

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

If the cranks weigh different, how can it not be an advantage?

Like for Like, the crank is dimensionally the same and weighs the same etc

[FranksWilde]

I don't think people understand what is going on.

The scat crank is no different to the standard crank as far as I was lead to believe. It is just manufactured to the original blueprint and not to the one some Indian made up in his garage.

There is no performance difference no weight difference no material difference.

It is mearly that it is not made by Ford International but by the yanks. Therefore is not indorced by ford (for the regs)

You do get different qualities of casting even when using the same materials. The crank that has been causing all these issues was not made very well ie not to the original spec. The scat crank is.

Therefore according to Sky ford there should be absolutely no difference.

Or am I just talking Sh*te.

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by ff90

It might go against the grain, but people will eventually vote with their feet and I hear quite a few cranks have already been fitted.

If your out for fun, understand the like of like principle, have to pay for your own engine you might be only left with your conscience, why not to have a choice?

They banned electric water pumps, just before the season started.

I dont think it can be left to your own conscience. If you can be disqualified for the wrong crank, you might as well fit an A2 cam and lighten the flywheel. Your conscience should allow it because your 'ordinary' engine will have no more power/performance than the top engines have anyway.
Really what we need is a duratech engine with a sealed ECU that levels out all the engines and gives reliability

[FranksWilde]

The whole point of formula ford is that it is affordable motorsport for the masses. As soon as you start using billet cranks etc the price goes up. Then you have the problem of where you stop with modifications.

A duratec engine would be good but it's alot of outlay and heartache for those without thier own machine shop and everyone would have to convert at the same time. Not going to happen.

There is nothing wrong with the kent engine. It has worked for decades, is easy to fix and maintain and quite reliable if left alone. Stop tinkering when it's running well.

A crank manufactured by someone who cares about product quality is all we ask for.

[ff90]

Originally Posted by SAMD

I dont think it can be left to your own conscience. If you can be disqualified for the wrong crank, you might as well fit an A2 cam and lighten the flywheel. Your conscience should allow it because your 'ordinary' engine will have no more power/performance than the top engines have anyway.

I'm not advocating blatant cheating in any why, but a LIKE of LIKE part that is just simply made better should not be discounted as an option?

[ff90]

Originally Posted by FranksWilde

I don't think people understand what is going on.

The scat crank is no different to the standard crank as far as I was lead to believe. It is just manufactured to the original blueprint and not to the one some Indian made up in his garage.

There is no performance difference no weight difference no material difference.

To be correct the material is slightly different and better, the source, SCAT Cranks are a very well known company with a proven supply chain and very good quality/accountability controls.

[dikko]

Any official announcements yet folks? I have a block ready and waiting a crankshaft.......


Can't wait...an engine that will last 10 years, ready to be built...heaven...I'll be able to go on holiday!

[FranksWilde]

Originally Posted by ff90

To be correct the material is slightly different and better.

What are you talking though. 1-2% extra carbon. Like you said just better quality control. It's still just a cast crank. It's not forged or billet.

Metallurgy
As an alloy consisting primarily of iron, the small quantities of metal added to that iron are what determines the differences in strength among various grades of steel. A set of standards established by the American Society for Metals (ASM) determines the content of metal grades in addition to their nomenclature. "For entry-level cast cranks, increasing the carbon content in proportion to iron improves strength," says Alan Davis of Eagle Specialty Products. The most basic cranks are cast iron, which typically have a tensile strength of about 70,000 to 80,000 psi. Slightly increasing the carbon content of iron produces nodular iron, resulting in a tensile strength of roughly 95,000 psi. Both materials are used extensively by the OEs, but won't quite cut it for more serious aftermarket stroker crank applications. Commonly used in entry-level aftermarket crankshafts, cast steel has greater carbon content than nodular iron, and a tensile strength of about 105,000 psi. "In a typical small-block, a cast-steel crank can easily handle 500 hp. Although we've seen them pushed to much high power levels, we generally recommend a forged crank at anything above that power level."

[SCOBER11]

nbhbg

[SCOBER11]

Right now i'll press the buttons correctly.

BRSCC have adopted it and so to the Scots i believe.

[Athgoe Racing]

What do you think rory will southern and northern Ireland champs follow this year? I think we have to!